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  1. #1
    Player
    Tehmon's Avatar
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    Feb 2022
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    Character
    Ryutaro Mori
    World
    Omega
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    Dancer Lv 90
    Even if we were to fully rejoin, we wouldn't be Azem, we would just have the fully rejoined soul of an ancient person that was once Azem.

    Emet revealed that the remaining inhabitants of Source who survive the rejoinings would be sacrificed to Zodiark to bring back their loved ones, the previously sacrificed. I reckon those souls would come back in the form they were sacrificed in and would hold their memories, otherwise the ascian plot makes zero sense. I presume this would mean that those who survive all the rejoinings wouldn't suddenly become the unsundered ancients they once were, and in addition all the souls reborn in the rejoined world wouldn't be any more closer to being the ancients they were pre-sundering, aside from being as powerful, intelligent and long-lived as they once were. Emet's plan on sacrificing the lives of the Source wouldn't make much sense if those fully rejoined became the ancients they were, especially since Emet must have known that Azem, his supposed great friend, is somewhere out there.

    The one rejoining we had in ShB was basically just a power-up. Otherwise it didn't seem to have affected us otherwise. I reckon the rest of the rejoinings would just be power-ups as well, and not magical memory removal/retrieval devices as well. I mean heck, we are eight times rejoined now, but we aren't getting any flashbacks to the life of Azem.

    This is to say, that whether we rejoined fully or not, we will never '' become '' Azem. At least, I very much doubt that.

    What throws a little bit of a wrench to this though is Varis' plan. Become fully rejoined so we can fight the ascians, but also become a unified race, much like the ascians... So what exactly happens when a soul is fully rejoined? I'm still of the mind that rejoinings are just power-ups, but that's only a theory of someone who isn't fully versed in the lore, I admit.
    (1)
    Last edited by Tehmon; 04-20-2022 at 04:22 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Shookbeast's Avatar
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    Dec 2021
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    Character
    Gunnor Wolfshead
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehmon View Post
    Even if we were to fully rejoin, we wouldn't be Azem, we would just have the fully rejoined soul of an ancient person that was once Azem.

    Emet revealed that the remaining inhabitants of Source who survive the rejoinings would be sacrificed to Zodiark to bring back their loved ones, the previously sacrificed. I reckon those souls would come back in the form they were sacrificed in and would hold their memories, otherwise the ascian plot makes zero sense. I presume this would mean that those who survive all the rejoinings wouldn't suddenly become the unsundered ancients they once were, and in addition all the souls reborn in the rejoined world wouldn't be any more closer to being the ancients they were pre-sundering, aside from being as powerful, intelligent and long-lived as they once were. Emet's plan on sacrificing the lives of the Source wouldn't make much sense if those fully rejoined became the ancients they were, especially since Emet must have known that Azem, his supposed great friend, is somewhere out there.

    The one rejoining we had in ShB was basically just a power-up. Otherwise it didn't seem to have affected us otherwise. I reckon the rest of the rejoinings would just be power-ups as well, and not magical memory removal/retrieval devices as well. I mean heck, we are eight times rejoined now, but we aren't getting any flashbacks to the life of Azem.

    This is to say, that whether we rejoined fully or not, we will never '' become '' Azem. At least, I very much doubt that.

    What throws a little bit of a wrench to this though is Varis' plan. Become fully rejoined so we can fight the ascians, but also become a unified race, much like the ascians... So what exactly happens when a soul is fully rejoined? I'm still of the mind that rejoinings are just power-ups, but that's only a theory of someone who isn't fully versed in the lore, I admit.
    I’m in the theory boat where we “become Azem” by collecting our shards and then going back in time. The back in time part is the key element here. It supposes that the untold part of Azem’s story is that they “appear one day and act really weird” which is the starting reason for why the Ancients think Azem is so strange. Of course, Azem is strange - they didn’t exist until the WOL from the future appeared.

    So in this theory, we actually are Azem, and Azem is us. We just show up one day in the past - likely on an MSQ to save the day somehow. This might be accomplished by another attempt at a closed time loop - or possibly something even trickier where we prevent the sundering - while also saving our timeline (not sure how that’s possible, but it could be).

    Personally, I think it’s pretty likely to happen, but I’m not sure if the writers plan on making it a many expansion arc - or if it’s something they plan on wrapping up real quick over the next few patches. At this rate - it could be either (:
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    Rulakir's Avatar
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    Nov 2021
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    Character
    Sajah Lane
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 88
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehmon View Post
    Emet revealed that the remaining inhabitants of Source who survive the rejoinings would be sacrificed to Zodiark to bring back their loved ones, the previously sacrificed. I reckon those souls would come back in the form they were sacrificed in and would hold their memories, otherwise the ascian plot makes zero sense. I presume this would mean that those who survive all the rejoinings wouldn't suddenly become the unsundered ancients they once were, and in addition all the souls reborn in the rejoined world wouldn't be any more closer to being the ancients they were pre-sundering, aside from being as powerful, intelligent and long-lived as they once were. Emet's plan on sacrificing the lives of the Source wouldn't make much sense if those fully rejoined became the ancients they were, especially since Emet must have known that Azem, his supposed great friend, is somewhere out there.
    Emet also tells the WoL at the Lift that if they survive the calamities they will become their equal, a complete being in a complete world. Their goal was to make things whole again, which is why I never bought into the interpretation that he meant to sacrifice the sundered on the Source. I can see how some arrived at that impression, but it doesn't make sense given their objective. EW further threw a wrench into that by showing that the souls of those sacrificed are trapped within Zodiark, so it'd be counterproductive.

    As for remembering their past selves, there are hints of that in ShB. Alisaie in particular says:

    "The starshower didn't awaken me to Hydaelyn's voice. But that vision of the Final Days, of Amaurot burning... It filled me with sadness to the very pit of my being. Things I once knew, people I once loved, promises I once made... It felt as though long-forgotten memories were dancing at the edges of my mind. But when I try to focus on them, they simply fade away. An effect of having a fractured soul, I shouldn't doubt."
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Tehmon's Avatar
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    Character
    Ryutaro Mori
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Rulakir View Post
    Emet also tells the WoL at the Lift that if they survive the calamities they will become their equal, a complete being in a complete world. Their goal was to make things whole again, which is why I never bought into the interpretation that he meant to sacrifice the sundered on the Source. I can see how some arrived at that impression, but it doesn't make sense given their objective. EW further threw a wrench into that by showing that the souls of those sacrificed are trapped within Zodiark, so it'd be counterproductive.

    As for remembering their past selves, there are hints of that in ShB. Alisaie in particular says:

    "The starshower didn't awaken me to Hydaelyn's voice. But that vision of the Final Days, of Amaurot burning... It filled me with sadness to the very pit of my being. Things I once knew, people I once loved, promises I once made... It felt as though long-forgotten memories were dancing at the edges of my mind. But when I try to focus on them, they simply fade away. An effect of having a fractured soul, I shouldn't doubt."
    I personally do not doubt the plan to sacrifice the rejoined Source. Majority of ancients already okay'd the third sacrifice in the pre-sundered world, I don't see how sacrificing the rejoined Source would be any different than the last time. Emet trying to lure us into the idea that the shards need to be rejoined for our benefit as well, and that we can work together peacefully (granted we can control the light), it is all just manipulation to me. But I confess that I am biased when it comes to Emet specifically in ShB, as I believe there is nothing redeemable or humane about him anymore, despite the story making us question his eagerness and conviction, that he might harbor guilt and pain for things he must do. I confess I always believe the worst of ShB Emet lol!

    I forgot about that piece of dialogue. I'm not entirely sure how accurate or real those memories are to that one soul in specific, or if the starshowers just generally induced a very strong reaction to the past events that would feel like true memories. But Emet also said that we might have very vague memories of the past, so I'm not sure. Safe to say that we have yet to see any past memories of Azem though, even if we are eight times rejoined.
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