Square Enix slowing killing the fun.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Complexity in rotations for the sake of complexity and artificial challenge is bad game design, in general.
However some people enjoy it anyway, and when you have as many classes as we have now there should be an option for it

They really need to focus more on class identity though. Thats the bigger issue, is that a lot of it is being removed

I also think they should have more variety with dungeons. Set piece dungeons are cool, but I actually prefer some of the ARR dungeons where you weren't just supposed to pull wall to wall.
I actually like that AV first room a lot for example. My issue with AV is aesthetics (its a cool design but unpleasant to me), but content wise its one of the better dungeons they've done.

Its also overkill with telegraphs. I enjoy the cyclops bosses that dont have ground telegraphs, but instead have mob animation ones. Like Halatali hard. I need to focus on the enemy itself, not the floor. The enemies like the Stone Vigil hard bosses as well. they reuse these bosses like Elden Ring reuses their mini bosses, but they are fun fights. Chimera is another example of a well designed boss fight.

Also, I feel we need a bit more unpredictability. Let us have to adapt more.

Ive been sharing this opinion regarding to dungeons but all I get were people throwing at my face is that "it'll make them a slog to go through when you do them repeatedly for roulettes".

Yeah thanks, this is why we now have FFXIII designed dungeons only masked by beautiful set dressing and on rails visual story telling. They're fun the first time around, but please all I ask is to give them an extra something that makes them a tad more interesting to explore. The only reason I even like doing dungeons isnt even for the dungeon exploration itself, its just for popping off with playing your job and even thats already being debated with their current design.

Just please, please, please make dungeons be less linear.

[MagicalChase]

button bloat is bad thing so i'm happy with these changes

How are you feeling Button bloat when you don’t even have kaiten on your bar before it got removed???

[Soge01]

Personally, thinking of switching to Black Mage as my main I was planning to main Samurai for the most part a month ago after I really got back into it. But with the Kaiten change, I'm really not sure I want to stick SAM... I remember while leveling it up when it first came out how dull/lacking your big Iaijutsu attacks were early on and once I finally unlocked Hissatsu: Kaiten that was a real game changer for me. It just felt so good hitting Kaiten when getting ready to shred a single or group of enemies with a super powered up attacked!

Now, without Kaiten giving me that dopamine hit/sense of accomplishment, I don't know if I really even want to touch it.

I played BLM on my alt when going through Shadowbringers on it before Endwalker came out and it remined me how much I loved it after having not played it in about a year. So...I'll probably switch to BLM because at the very least that Job will never see any real significant changes to it and the core of its gameplay will always stay the same. It's almost been the exact same job it's always been at its core since ARR launch, so that'll probably be the Job for me for now, unless I can actually get into SAM with its changes.

I also don't like the Warrior Overpower change. That was one of the FUN parts about being a Warrior, damit!!! :/

[TaleraRistain]

I also think they should have more variety with dungeons. Set piece dungeons are cool, but I actually prefer some of the ARR dungeons where you weren't just supposed to pull wall to wall.
I actually like that AV first room a lot for example. My issue with AV is aesthetics (its a cool design but unpleasant to me), but content wise its one of the better dungeons they've done.

Unfortunately, people just do it anyway. I needed a few more tomes last night and did Aurum Vale for it. Tank grabbed the frog, ran around the left side and grabbed those mobs, then straight into the boss room where it and some of the other mobs just disengaged.

[IdowhatIwant]

I mean hyperbole at its finest to be honest, I am very much going to be round for 7.0 because it will be crucial to see how they handle a new story etc without current plot threads to tie up. I will be one to give it a chance especially with the visual overhaul etc.

So glad you understood that it was a hyperbole. Man you must have taken an english class before.

I personally would prefer less buttons to push. lol I think they could prune a lot of class buttons. When class buttons moves beyond the two default action bars, it is too much imo. I am the type of person though that like things to just be fun and simple. Not necessarily overly easy I guess but easy to understand wtf is happening and why, and what i need to do. More buttons does not necessarily mean more complex or more difficult.. it just means clutter imo.. adding difficulty or complexity by adding buttons it is more artificial imo..

Also you got to think most players might not play like you do. Maybe they have some data somewhere that tells them that the average player is not at the play level as people like yourself. Usually these game companies tend to cater to the people in which gives them the most money. That is usually the normies/ casual players, cause they move through the content slower and thus have higher potential to give them money for longer periods of time and there are more of them... So I would imagine that , those are the types of people that will be catered to most often.
So it could honestly be set up that ffxiv is not a game built with people who are decently good at games in mind..

I don't like a lot of buttons either, but there is a difference between condensing buttons and removing skills. The dev team have clearly shown they have the ability to condense the number of buttons, but for some reason have chosen not to for many classes. When there is a method to reduce buttons, and a skill is removed due to button bloat, that is where players start asking why is this happening.

Now are far as all those buttons go, yes for some one that is going to stay in more casual content sure you won't need some of those buttons. You have the option to remove those from your bar. How ever some of those buttons are more utilized in higher end content than casual.


To your second point, there is nothing wrong with catering to a larger demographic of the game, business wise it's a smart decision. How ever when you cater to much on one aspect then you begin to neglect another aspect, which is where the problem lies. There has to be a balance in a game like this, and the balance is shifting to far one direction which causes groups of players to become alienated, who will eventually just quit. As much as the player base believes the larger portion is casual, based on the current census, it is pretty balanced over all. Some data centers are far more casuals then others but over all I would put the game at around a 60 / 40 split leaning towards casuals. It really sucks for the devs to maintain that balance, probably not an easy thing to do. How ever I think they currently not doing a great job at it, as there is less casual content with longevity than there is harder content, which brings me back into the whole idea where I think the game generally needs more content over all.

Complexity in rotations for the sake of complexity and artificial challenge is bad game design, in general.
However some people enjoy it anyway, and when you have as many classes as we have now there should be an option for it

They really need to focus more on class identity though. Thats the bigger issue, is that a lot of it is being removed

I also think they should have more variety with dungeons. Set piece dungeons are cool, but I actually prefer some of the ARR dungeons where you weren't just supposed to pull wall to wall.
I actually like that AV first room a lot for example. My issue with AV is aesthetics (its a cool design but unpleasant to me), but content wise its one of the better dungeons they've done.

Its also overkill with telegraphs. I enjoy the cyclops bosses that dont have ground telegraphs, but instead have mob animation ones. Like Halatali hard. I need to focus on the enemy itself, not the floor. The enemies like the Stone Vigil hard bosses as well.

Also, I feel we need a bit more unpredictability. Let us have to adapt more.

This I can agree with, I think having classes that are more complicated than others is fine. Look at BLM, the only reason it has not been completely ruined is because Yoshi P actually tests that himself. And it plays smooth, has a complexity to master that allows you to improve your game play over time, and a unique identity. Then you have summoner which is very easy to master, not to complicated, and has an identity of being a summoner.(sorry pre 6.0 summoners). I think these sort of things work both for players that want to solo and group for hard core content. That being said though, I do think every class should have something to give you a ceiling and a floor but those ceilings and floors can vary. And if you don't actually feel you should improve at a game over time, then I do not think you actually play video games. There are no games that don't force you to improve over time to complete. Tamagotchi isn't a video game.

[Jojoya]

Has anyone else noticed the slow change of every class being more and more brain dead. I don\\'t understand. What\\'s the point of a game with no challenge? Every Expert dungeon you can heal and dps in your sleep. The only challenges left are Savage and Ultimates. The new SAM changes makes it to where there\\'s no reward for knowing your class, same with SMN. We are not all noobs at this game please stop catering to the bad players. I have about 1800 house spent in this game and for the first time I thought about going back to WOW for some type of challenge in the casual content.

Not everyone is playing for challenge. Some just want to play with friends, relax and have fun. Others enjoy the story. They don't care about the difficulty level. Not everyone thinks that having 40 different keybinds makes for compelling game play.

SE has to design the game just as much for them as for you if not more since they comprise the bulk of the player base. You stop getting the new content you want if they stop paying the bills to make it because they aren't getting the content they want.

By all means, play WoW again if you feel it suits you better. Return here when new Savage/Ultimate content is released, get your fill then go back to WoW yet again. The idea that enjoying more than one MMO is a heinous crime needs to be stamped out. It's okay to play both, really.

[hagare]

I don't like a lot of buttons either, but there is a difference between condensing buttons and removing skills. The dev team have clearly shown they have the ability to condense the number of buttons, but for some reason have chosen not to for many classes. When there is a method to reduce buttons, and a skill is removed due to button bloat, that is where players start asking why is this happening.

Have you seen the reactions on the thread suggesting condensing button?
You'd think they were asking for kaiten to be removed. LMAO

[Chawan]

.

I mean in general I agree mostly.. about needing to find balance.. However it must indeed be quite hard to find good balance.. because from all my experience between the mmos I have played over the years. particularly WoW, SWTOR and FFXIV there seems to be a common occurrence.. and that is issues with balance between the types of players.. Once a player base gets to a certain size I wonder if it gets hard to find who to listen to? or WHAT to listen to?.. EVERYONE wants the game they chose to play, to cater to them specifically (or their play style group) it seems.. the larger the player base becomes the more fractured it becomes to different play styles and the more vocal each play style group becomes.. I wonder if it just gets to the point where the easier route is just to sacrifice a few play styles to fit the most common play style, or maybe even the play style they prefer to be playing their game.. if the playerbase is indeed that evenly split as to what kind of players play this game regularly then perhaps people need to put their money where their mouth is and teach them a lesson and.. play something else. Perhaps then there will be a noticeable pull to make them rethink their stance. Tho coming from WoW that makes me wonder if that will work or not..

edit: i mean granted .. I don't care either way. I like the game enough to deal with whatever for the most part.. so long as i can still at least fumble my way through with a smile on my face it is fine.. I have low expectations though and am relativly easy to entertain. It is just unfortunate others are not so easy lol. I really do hope that things are not as bad as you all think it will be.. and or can manage to still have fun. I have no aversions to people who simply like to play harder.

[DiaDeem]

Oh noo.. the game is more approachable. The end approaches I guess

Man, everything was so much better and complex in HW right? Like Caster Bard.................

[IdowhatIwant]

Oh noo.. the end approaches I guess

Man, everything was so much better in HW right? Like Caster Bard........

I don't understand why you waste the time to get on here, read this (probably just the title,) and post something random about doom and gloom instead of something actually contributing something meaningful to the conversation. Cause all it is, is just meaning less spam people have to wade through to read anything with any sort of thought put into it.