PvP Rewards New and Old - Why repeat past mistakes?

[Zetlin]

@Ixon

I have yet to see someone miss the point this hard, but alas I'll try to explain it in a different way.

The developers made bad time-limited content that was controversial, poorly planned, not received well, etc. Nothing about the previous PvP experience is what they wanted to give to the players and people chose not to do it. The bottom line is it's about giving players an enjoyable PvP experience, and they failed multiple times. Maybe you have had fun with PvP, but the overwhelming majority of people did not, so it is being changed. Just because you participated in and maybe sometimes enjoyed the poorly envisioned version of this feature between waiting through two hours queues doesn't mean anything to anyone. I pity you actually, it sucks you had to do that for a handful of glams, mount, title, etc. No one should have had to do that. It's clear to me what the developers intended and what was reality are two different things and I think we can at least agree on that. There is a reason it's changing, so they went back to the drawing board (again) and rightfully so. To sit here and tell me that means they should also continue to repeat the mistakes within the reward structure too, perhaps leading to some of the same issues as before, is part of the problem. The reward structure was part of the problem and should also be addressed fully rather than this 8-month drop off split system they want to do now. Part of moving on from the past isn't just about improving the content, it involves putting the previous rewards into the new version. I'm sure that last sentence is all you'll hear as you continue to punch down. You should also ask more from the developers as a paying customer by the way, just because they made a system that used fomo and you participated in it doesn't make it good. Judging it based on its own merit I'm sure you'd agree that if they could have done it in a more equitable way from the start it would have been better for everyone. Unless the entire point for you is being able to gatekeep rewards, in which case I suppose there's no further course on this discussion for us.

[Ixon]

@Ixon

I have yet to see someone miss the point this hard, but alas I'll try to explain it in a different way.

The developers made bad time-limited content that was controversial, poorly planned, not received well, etc. Nothing about the previous PvP experience is what they wanted to give to the players and people chose not to do it. The bottom line is it's about giving players an enjoyable PvP experience, and they failed multiple times. Maybe you have had fun with PvP, but the overwhelming majority of people did not, so it is being changed. Just because you participated in and maybe sometimes enjoyed the poorly envisioned version of this feature between waiting through two hours queues doesn't mean anything to anyone. I pity you actually, it sucks you had to do that for a handful of glams, mount, title, etc. No one should have had to do that. It's clear to me what the developers intended and what was reality are two different things and I think we can at least agree on that. There is a reason it's changing, so they went back to the drawing board (again) and rightfully so. To sit here and tell me that means they should also continue to repeat the mistakes within the reward structure too, perhaps leading to some of the same issues as before, is part of the problem. The reward structure was part of the problem and should also be addressed fully rather than this 8-month drop off split system they want to do now. Part of moving on from the past isn't just about improving the content, it involves putting the previous rewards into the new version. I'm sure that last sentence is all you'll hear as you continue to punch down. You should also ask more from the developers as a paying customer by the way, just because they made a system that used fomo and you participated in it doesn't make it good. Judging it based on its own merit I'm sure you'd agree that if they could have done it in a more equitable way from the start it would have been better for everyone. Unless the entire point for you is being able to gatekeep rewards, in which case I suppose there's no further course on this discussion for us.

The point isn't missed, it's just not agreed with it. Who cares if the PVP was good or bad? Those players were there, they put in the their time and effort, and they earned their rewards. You know almost every single change that has happened from the existence of PVP to now has been for the casual players? Almost every single one. Think about it, most of the historically major changes to competitive PVP was to entice casuals. Even this new game mode is targeted at casuals. You know why? Because the majority of players in this game are incapable of putting in more than a dungeons worth of attention.

What I always find interesting, is the people screaming FOMO the loudest, almost never REALLY try themselves. Accounts almost a decade old, never once giving it a solid try. Or even if they did, even if they failed, they didn't try again. They hit a single speedbump, called foul, and are now in here wanting another chance at something they never even had the courage to attempt in the first place. In my opinion, those people don't deserver another chance. As for the new players, Hello! Welcome to life! Very, very, often when you join a game years down the road you will find items that you can no longer get, just as sometimes you will find yourself in life late to the party when it comes to things you wish you had that you cannot change.

What you I believe you fail to understand, is that PVPers like me like "competition". We like sweaty, try hard, nail biting, down to the last second games. It's exhilarating. And nothing pushes a player harder than a once in a lifetime opportunity. If SE were to bend to the will of your thought process. That competition, that drive, is gone because what's the point? Why should I push myself to my limits for something that is just going to show up again in a few years that players can get by using a 'W' key macro in Frontlines. You will kill what little remains from actual competiveness. Showing my age, but I feel for a lot of players here SE could literally give you $100 dollar bills and you would complain that they weren't gold brick. You are getting the cool, exclusive rewards that everyone will see, that you will be able to get by AFKing in a Frontlines every other day, with about a 8month time frame. While the competitive players, those that put more time into PVP in a day than most of you do in a month, are seemingly left with titles and Calling Cards for all their time and effort.

I don't understand this malice of PVPers whos only crimes were playing a game mode they enjoyed to the best of their abilities. You want myself and people like me to agree with you? Explain why what you want is good for competition. Explain how duplicate rewards will spark serious competition between veteran and new players. What does a player like me have to look forward to when there is a copy of something I already have as a reward? How does that entice a player like me to engage in content for something I already have?

[SeiyaSoiya]

a

this sounds vindictive
you claim to have only played pvp because you enjoyed the game mode and enjoyed the thrill of the hunt
however, try and take away the sense of exclusivity of the material rewards you acquired from playing this game mode, and your immediate response is: those people do not deserve it, because they didn't play the game mode during the time I was playing, they are not allowed to have a second chance.

[Ixon]

this sounds vindictive
you claim to have only played pvp because you enjoyed the game mode and enjoyed the thrill of the hunt
however, try and take away the sense of exclusivity of the material rewards you acquired from playing this game mode, and your immediate response is: those people do not deserve it, because they didn't play the game mode during the time I was playing, they are not allowed to have a second chance.

Never claimed it was "only". I did it for both the game and the reward, like most people playing any game do. And yes, I don't believe if you had the chance but electively chose not to go for it before, you shouldn't get another chance. Why even have a competition for a reward if the reward comes back up again, and again, and again?

[redheadturk]

I agree with the poster you quoted No award in the game should be subject to FOMO! Every reward should be permanently attainable as long as you are wiling to put in the effort to get them. That includes Garo. That includes past Feast top 100 rewards all of it.

[Dzian]

I agree with the poster you quoted No award in the game should be subject to FOMO! Every reward should be permanently attainable as long as you are wiling to put in the effort to get them. That includes Garo. That includes past Feast top 100 rewards all of it.

Nope. because then it destroys there identity and significance.. the feast top 100 awards signify that players got into the "top 100" the second you make them obtainable to everyone they no longer signify that "top 100"

Ironically one of the reasons players do not participate in content in this game is because Gear / rewards and all that all feel like junk, nothing holds any value or significance. everything is just a placeholder piece of junk till the next patch drops...

The Devs make every raid teir easier and easier trying to entice players to give it a go.. but players say no cos the rewards are crap, the rewards are crap because they dont hold any value or significnace..

which is exactly why there was such a huge kick off with the white ravens a while back.. because it was one of the few items that held any value or significnace and they destroyed the hell out of it.

the game honestly needs more exclusive / valuable stuff not less.

If i recall correctly ARR demonstrated this well. The portion of the player base who took on coils has never been matched with any raid teir since they implemented unsynced and completely decimated the value of the reawards... even though every raid teir gets easier and easier.

the unsyynced system as a whole has the same issue.. players don't bother even trying content they just wait till they can faceroll it..

[Moonlite]

I agree with the poster you quoted No award in the game should be subject to FOMO! Every reward should be permanently attainable as long as you are wiling to put in the effort to get them. That includes Garo. That includes past Feast top 100 rewards all of it.

You do know Garo is a borrowed license and they have to negotiate the length of time? Just like when you see old tv shows that have new soundtracks, the deal they made had run out. Now if you want to ask/tell dev team only SE events so SE can control them that is cool. But also means probably never getting the chance of a non SE event.

[redheadturk]

You do know Garo is a borrowed license and they have to negotiate the length of time? Just like when you see old tv shows that have new soundtracks, the deal they made had run out. Now if you want to ask/tell dev team only SE events so SE can control them that is cool. But also means probably never getting the chance of a non SE event.

A contract running out does not mean the need to remove things already present. Only if the parent company tells them to do so, in which case people who had already earned the mounts/gear would have them taken away. As long as they are still in the game, they can be moved to a currency vendor.

[Ransu]

A contract running out does not mean the need to remove things already present. Only if the parent company tells them to do so, in which case people who had already earned the mounts/gear would have them taken away. As long as they are still in the game, they can be moved to a currency vendor.

That's not how it works...

[SeiyaSoiya]

That's not how it works...

you seem to know a lot about how the garo licensing contract with creative business III and A Realm Reborn (tm): Final Fantasy XIV Online (r) works