Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Ixon]

I'm not so sure about that given how they changed Ninja, Summoner and Samurai and Astro in 5.1 on the eve of TEA. Even then when was the last time healers ever got reworked to a huge extent outside of expansion releases? You may have how a move changes like Sleeve Draw or some mp reshuffling but nothing so drastic as what they did with NIN, SMN, and SAM in 5.1 or MNK in 5.4

From Letter from the Producer Live Part LXIX:
Y: "A lot of jobs changed in 6.0-6.05, and we've read all the feedback and will keep it in mind while adjusting jobs. We won't be able to make super big changes because DSW balance will be affected"

[Semirhage]

Oh thank God, they've read the feedback and will make adjustments.

I can't wait for a 100 MP cost reduction on Medica 2 while being told "now you are more able to gain further enjoyment from your healer kits. Please play Ultimate if you are still unsatisfied".

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Oh thank God, they've read the feedback and will make adjustments.

I can't wait for a 100 MP cost reduction on Medica 2 while being told "now you are more able to gain further enjoyment from your healer kits. Please play Ultimate if you are still unsatisfied".

Don't forget the buff for their nuke spells too by 10p! Hopefully that will shut those who ask for more dps buttons up! Oh wait...

[Faafetai]

For the most part, yes. Ultimate simply deals far more outgoing damage. However, even that remains both scripted and inconsistent. Take TEA, for example. The first two phases, Living Liquid and BJ/CC deal significantly higher damage than Alexander—making the whole fight heavily frontloaded. Once you reach Alexander, it's all just a mechanical dance with the healers having not much more to deal with in terms of damage than your average Savage fight. Mega Holy and Trine do hit particularly hard but you'll have essentially your whole toolkit for them.

Thank the twelve honestly with having your whole kit. I remember seeing the unreal trials and getting excited I could go into leviathan with my whole kit on any class. The idea of an old trial being kind of scaled for a different level was super cool. I never got to do them because I admit I am slow to get into content sometimes, because there is so much to do in here. I was excited to try it as bard and dust poor bard off and have to think about what reflected physical or magic damage and have to swap targets to not get wrecked. And if dancers dance would destroy you with reflect damage if you hit both the head and the tail because the range of the dance is huge when it wants to be.

Aye I thought as much about Ultimates. They way that they design things made me figure this was the case and the statement Yoshi p made was just....baffling. I can't even think of an analogy of this that is good. It is like telling someone who enjoys dark souls, If you like difficulty like dark souls try 'insert game name here' that has unfair one shot mechanics when that is not why people play dark souls. Yes you can get wombo comboed in there but for the most part it is the slowly learning the new fancy footwork, dodge patterns, and how the bosses ai works that makes it fun, at least to me. It is also super fun to see how the bosses react to using a ranged weapon, how easy it is to stagger them, just experimenting is really fun mixed with the thick fog of silence.

We can only speculate, but it seems the dev team has a radically different (or perhaps, stubborn), perception of how we actually play. They seemingly believe healers regularly GCD heal while using their oGCDs for emergencies. Keep in mind, they do watch World prog, where even the best healers are playing extremely safe despite still spamming their nuke. That's the only rationale I can conclude for why they keep adding new healing abilities when the kits are bloated enough already. Unfortunately, that isn't how we play—especially in lower end content. Equally unfortunate is whenever people bring this up we get dismissive responses like the thread title, causing that disconnect to continue. Frankly speaking, it's inexcusable to me an entire role essentially spams one button for 60-90% of the content they partake in, regardless of its difficulty. That's just poor design.

I know in the past gcd healing was I think really the only way in like 1.0 and pre 50 currently, but with their current design for content, with heavy movement phases having those ogcd's are essential sometimes people get deleted in two hits depending on gear and what level you are at not having those moments you can quickly heal someone, could keep them off of the floor.

I think they call it theory of mind, but I can not theory of mind around what strange thought process the devs have sometimes. They have like multiple personalities or jekyll and hyde situations sometimes. Many things are living rent free like the random things they mention and just never implement and say nothing about like they never said those changes in the first place. 'If we don't address them maybe everyone will forget about some of the things we said.' Like a cat with no object permanence. They look away and the problems no longer exist they look back "OH god the problems there are so many they exist!" look away "oh what was I doing? I am really thirsty all the sudden"

It is kind of silly, but also very sad to me sometimes.

[Banriikku]

So, the game is "dps is king" build by Yoshida and his Dev's. Fact.
WHM: Lily's why is this still not dps neutral ? Why do i have so little control over Liturgy of the Bell? Thin Air is weird now... why ? Whats up with mana ?
AST: Card RNG + Astrodyne so weak ist does not matter and way to many buttons for so few things its doing
SGE: Kardia is overheal (and the only reason i cant say "SGE healer through damage is a lie") and annoying, Phlegma no reach ? Why?, Pepsis is for what again? Toxicon is dps loss .
SCH: Whats up with the no interaction Fey ? Whats the purpose of the fearie gauge ? kill it and make Aetherpact a cooldown, why is the fey so strong ?
All healer: please change 1111211111 - thats boring, why is GCD healing so punishing regarding the dps-meta you are fostering and grooming ??!!!

All healer suffer from too strong OGCD in combination of medigation (feint, addle...) and all damage is predictable. But the healers are build as if were damage not predictable and dps not all that is rewarded (healing is binary- 1 point more hp then damage is the same as if i would spamming medica 2. fact).
Yoshida said for many yeras now "rework" "we work" and so on but never delivered, its same for the galmour system or housing: He knows, its bad and should be changed ASAP but for unkown reason he blocks it and we get nothing or even worse (looking at you housing). Then he proceeds to blame " you not understand" "players schould read" - We read, we listen and came to the conclusion - You will ignore us until we are loud and annoying. I donw want to be OP, as you stated "you cant get this, its op and you dont understand.." Sorry but some of us are also Dev's or work in the same Industry as you and have an idea what we are talking about and see that you are throwing excuses. Remember "fun first" then what ever else. If you think the "DPS-Meta" is bad then change it but dont throw the healers under bus and say "hey we dont have dps-meta look at healer"

[Silver-Strider]

They stated that they weren't going to do major reworks till after the next Ultimate most likely because they don't want to break jobs or break the Ultimate that was already delayed so much. So this thread will be poppin off when 6.1 is just potencies and minor adjustments.

I know I got my pitchfork ready when I read the WHM adjustment being just a cost reduction to Cure 2

[Minarisweet]

How long does it take for a community rep to do anything about a popular thread? This one has over 180 upvotes and almost 100 pages of replies. I can only expect this to be moved or closed since nothing from the reps for over a month now.

[HyoMinPark]

Don't forget the buff for their nuke spells too by 10p! Hopefully that will shut those who ask for more dps buttons up! Oh wait...

Nah, they’ll just up the proc rate of Freecure to 50%. That’s far more important than 10 potency on Glare III, duh. And that’ll make WHMs happy!! Right? RIGHT?!?!?!

How long does it take for a community rep to do anything about a popular thread? This one has over 180 upvotes and almost 100 pages of replies. I can only expect this to be moved or closed since nothing from the reps for over a month now.

Community mods generally only close threads if they are problematic. Rarely because they’re too large (like the original Tales from the Duty Finder and Show Your Mi’qote threads). That they haven’t posted in here doesn’t mean much—they don’t post in threads often.

That said, the jaded healer in me doubts anyone has even looked at it. Regardless of the amount of traction it’s getting.

[Ixon]

Community mods generally only close threads if they are problematic. Rarely because they’re too large (like the original Tales from the Duty Finder and Show Your Mi’qote threads). That they haven’t posted in here doesn’t mean much—they don’t post in threads often.

That said, the jaded healer in me doubts anyone has even looked at it. Regardless of the amount of traction it’s getting.

JP Forums get more looked at than NA ones for sure. Partly because it's a JP game whose main target are JP players, and another part that the JP forums are usually not as, lack of a better word, emotional than NA ones. A lot of JP posts are very concise, to the point, with reasoning and examples, pros and cons, etc, etc. The word of mouth I have heard is the community managers scrape the forums, consolidate the information, then feed it back to Dev HQ for them to mull over. There definitely used to be way more interaction on the forums from the community managers, unsure what started the decline, most likely it just turned into attacks and name calling. Especially with how hostile the forums have become lately, I'm not surprised they aren't sticking their neck out to the community chopping block.

[Mapleine]

Nah, they’ll just up the proc rate of Freecure to 50%. That’s far more important than 10 potency on Glare III, duh. And that’ll make WHMs happy!! Right? RIGHT?!?!?!



Community mods generally only close threads if they are problematic. Rarely because they’re too large (like the original Tales from the Duty Finder and Show Your Mi’qote threads). That they haven’t posted in here doesn’t mean much—they don’t post in threads often.

That said, the jaded healer in me doubts anyone has even looked at it. Regardless of the amount of traction it’s getting.

I wouldn't complain as much if we got more content in exchange for all the simplification, jobs have basically become roles, but we don't get anything in exchange. Nothing ever improves, it only gets worse, and for what? To protect legacy content? Well it isn't working, most older content, including MSQ finales, are rapidly blasted apart. None of that would be worth making people play hundreds of hours to get core abilities either way.

The only content changes in recent years have been that they took the few sad dungeons we had away from us and patches are now slower. If we can't have more battle content can we at least have Aero III back? Aero III died for nothing!