Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Aword3213]

Ideally they could hire some competent class designers that actually have an interest in the healing role to fill our hotbars with a entirely different toolkit that doesn't revolve around pressing the same button 100-150 times in a single trial or turn.

That would be nice. As we're definitely going to have more brand new jobs added in the on going expansions, they certianly need more people to join their ranks

[HyoMinPark]

and you expect new players to be ignorant and stupid? Tutorial exists

They do. But that still doesn’t stop people from playing the jobs incorrectly or in some semblance of freestyle. Sage has a wonderful tutorial when you unlock it that explains the basics of Kardia, yet the amount of Sages I’ve seen that won’t use it is kind of mind-boggling. Or the number of Sages that ironically apply it and then spend their time casting Diagnosis on the tank and doing zero damage…

Tutorials may exist, but that doesn’t mean people still don’t play stupidly. This game is actually quite horrible when it comes to providing meaningful gameplay advice and tutorials. Only the newer jobs added since SB really get any sort of in-depth how-to to them when you unlock them. But the base classes? Or the base jobs? Nada.

[Aword3213]

They do. But that still doesn’t stop people from playing the jobs incorrectly or in some semblance of freestyle. Sage has a wonderful tutorial when you unlock it that explains the basics of Kardia, yet the amount of Sages I’ve seen that won’t use it is kind of mind-boggling. Or the number of Sages that ironically apply it and then spend their time casting Diagnosis on the tank and doing zero damage…

Tutorials may exist, but that doesn’t mean people still don’t play stupidly. This game is actually quite horrible when it comes to providing meaningful gameplay advice and tutorials. Only the newer jobs added since SB really get any sort of in-depth how-to to them when you unlock them. But the base classes? Or the base jobs? Nada.

I believe we were talking about leveling and its relative systems?

I'm not going to delve into that new non offensive healer style gameplay or the engagement of healer gameplay and its toolkit. That was beyond the scope of my original comment.

[Faafetai]

I may be completely off base here, but aren't Ultimates literally the same thing where everything is still on a timer. Raid wide goes out people need to be healed, tank busters go out, but there is more of that damage going out and you need more focus on party mitigations similar to savage before everyone is completely geared out? I have not done them yet but I highly doubt things will be random it is just not in this games nature to be random with certain things unless you are playing with accident prone players which is indeed fun and challenging. This is not learning how to parry in dark souls or trying to master backstabbing and parrying to take down Abyss Watchers. Even still you will not suddenly have a rotation on whm like they promised in a live letter before EW for aoe holy lilly being a combo. I will eventually attempt Ultimates but I highly doubt once you memorize the fight it will no longer be challenging way less after people make barely any mistakes in all content.

That isn't to say it wont be challenging but I feel as though there is either a translation issue with what people actually want or what they even understand about what people are asking for. I really just think Yoshi P needs to go on a stream and level whm and be stuck going through the ARR grind the whole experience not just edit his character to 90 and test at end game. No one plays healer on the dev team correct? I think even if they do not want to they should try it on out and tell us if they are having fun.

[technole]

No no no no no more gcd heal reliance please. GCD healing within FF14 feels fricken terrible!

.3 tick rate? GCD rollover of base 2.5 seconds? No thank you.

There is nothing quite like the syncing down to lower levels as healer right meow. Mmm yummy I love going hhhhnnnnnnnnnng Adlo for fifteen years while also losing uptime. Amazing! Will it arrive in time? Will I Adlo myself because server ticks suck the big phat one? Who knooows!

That was the way we did things in ARR. There was only Bene as the White Mage oGCD heal. You didn't have the MP to be a stone freak either. I do remember in Turn 13 getting to use Holy during adds, couple of stones during Hallowed Ground, Holmgang. There just wasn't the MP, nor oGCDs to really get away with it to the extent of today.

Even at the beginning of the fight, you have about 2 GCDs to get the DPS healthy in Turn 13 after Megaflare before the Earthshakers, so you plan to land the Medica II immediately when the stack hit. Otherwise your single target Cure IIs wasn't going to be enough to keep your DPS target alive. The other healer would get the other side, they just Adlo and Lustrate. Just a snapshot on how GCD healing wasn't boring, it was how things were and you had a finite plan on what you needed to do compared to the array of options today.

[Mimilu]

I didn't want to mention the name because it will take a lot of time to explain the difference and I'm not interested in doing this.

Just know the healing tools we have in this game is way too powerful.

So the game your talking about is so different to XIV that mentioning what it actual is would hurt your argument?

[HyoMinPark]

I believe we were talking about leveling and its relative systems?

I'm not going to delve into that new non offensive healer style gameplay or the engagement of healer gameplay and its toolkit. That was beyond the scope of my original comment.

Even those most basic concepts the game hardly provides information about outside of Active Help windows—which can be disabled and easily ignored.

[Banriikku]

I think i am interested to see what a "non offensive" healer would be but FF14 does not provide frame to do that, not even in the slighstest and would without serious encounter changes not work. Especially in a game that makes "DPS"-Meta the rewarding gameplay style.
But for good measure if healer do the same damage but get a rotation - i take it. I REPEAT for all people out there i dont want more "damage" for healers, i want change the way the healers apply said damage. Please change "11111112111111"!

[ForteNightshade]

I may be completely off base here, but aren't Ultimates literally the same thing where everything is still on a timer. Raid wide goes out people need to be healed, tank busters go out, but there is more of that damage going out and you need more focus on party mitigations similar to savage before everyone is completely geared out? I have not done them yet but I highly doubt things will be random it is just not in this games nature to be random with certain things unless you are playing with accident prone players which is indeed fun and challenging. This is not learning how to parry in dark souls or trying to master backstabbing and parrying to take down Abyss Watchers. Even still you will not suddenly have a rotation on whm like they promised in a live letter before EW for aoe holy lilly being a combo. I will eventually attempt Ultimates but I highly doubt once you memorize the fight it will no longer be challenging way less after people make barely any mistakes in all content.

That isn't to say it wont be challenging but I feel as though there is either a translation issue with what people actually want or what they even understand about what people are asking for. I really just think Yoshi P needs to go on a stream and level whm and be stuck going through the ARR grind the whole experience not just edit his character to 90 and test at end game. No one plays healer on the dev team correct? I think even if they do not want to they should try it on out and tell us if they are having fun.

For the most part, yes. Ultimate simply deals far more outgoing damage. However, even that remains both scripted and inconsistent. Take TEA, for example. The first two phases, Living Liquid and BJ/CC deal significantly higher damage than Alexander—making the whole fight heavily frontloaded. Once you reach Alexander, it's all just a mechanical dance with the healers having not much more to deal with in terms of damage than your average Savage fight. Mega Holy and Trine do hit particularly hard but you'll have essentially your whole toolkit for them.

We can only speculate, but it seems the dev team has a radically different (or perhaps, stubborn), perception of how we actually play. They seemingly believe healers regularly GCD heal while using their oGCDs for emergencies. Keep in mind, they do watch World prog, where even the best healers are playing extremely safe despite still spamming their nuke. That's the only rationale I can conclude for why they keep adding new healing abilities when the kits are bloated enough already. Unfortunately, that isn't how we play—especially in lower end content. Equally unfortunate is whenever people bring this up we get dismissive responses like the thread title, causing that disconnect to continue. Frankly speaking, it's inexcusable to me an entire role essentially spams one button for 60-90% of the content they partake in, regardless of its difficulty. That's just poor design.

[Deceptus]

Once you reach Alexander, it's all just a mechanical dance with the healers having not much more to deal with in terms of damage than your average Savage fight. Mega Holy and Trine do hit particularly hard but you'll have essentially your whole toolkit for them.

And at that level you're going to have people using Reprisal, Feint, Addle, Shield Samba combined with shields etc so you realize those "hard hitting" stuff are relatively manageable. Those things are independent of all of the other healer mitigation.

Like others have said. It's just a dance. Do the steps and complete it. Nothing is random. Literally everything can be mapped out.