Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Deceptus]

Regardless of "Healer gets dps options" or "buff/debuff" the devs need to change something. And while they at it please implement a proper tutorial. Thanks.
By the way, if you saying "healer should heal" this would change the fights (meaning:ALL BATTLE CONTENT) in its core - you know that ? I am all in but are you people, that ask this, really up for this change ?

It would remove the ability of healers to do the MSQ.

You can't heal mobs to death.

[Kyrj]

The solution is simple. Everyone gets one button. Dps get a dps button titled DPS, it does damage to everything. Tanks get a tank button titled tank, it just taunts over and over and over there's no damage only taunt. Healers get a heal button titled heal, it just does an aoe heal. There, now everyone sucks and we have true equality.

[CrimsonGunner]

The solution is simple. Everyone gets one button. Dps get a dps button titled DPS, it does damage to everything. Tanks get a tank button titled tank, it just taunts over and over and over there's no damage only taunt. Healers get a heal button titled heal, it just does an aoe heal. There, now everyone sucks and we have true equality.

dont spoil their 7.0 job action trailer so soon in the expansion XD

[IDontPetLalas]

The solution is simple. Everyone gets one button. Dps get a dps button titled DPS, it does damage to everything. Tanks get a tank button titled tank, it just taunts over and over and over there's no damage only taunt. Healers get a heal button titled heal, it just does an aoe heal. There, now everyone sucks and we have true equality.

dont spoil their 7.0 job action trailer so soon in the expansion XD

Both of you made me laugh a lot harder than I would have liked to reading this, thanks!

[linayar]

And if you were to compare it to Umbral Ice. Well, BLM barely stays in that phase for more than 2-3 GCDs.

Umbral ice is too good at MP regeneration (which makes sense for a DPS). My idea is to make umbral heal take longer and astral damage be shorter.

Healers contribute far too much damage nowadays for this to be acceptable.

That is the case today. With a major change like this, the balance would of course have to be adjusted.

To run the UI/AF metaphor, unless you're essentially using a single skill as a toggle for any and all healing spells into new damage ones (a major, but not undeserved, investment in increased kit size), a "BLM approach" can only make half or more of one's kit unusable at any given moment --in effect just greatly reducing freedom and perceived responsiveness-- just as Cleric Stance did before.

I think the difference with cleric stance is that it's a stance that has to be manually toggled. People have trouble with tank stance as it is. The BLM approach is more direct because it's resource-based. You cannot stay in DPS forever due to MP costs and healing becomes your default rotation.

After that, it's a matter of being a good player to actually put up DPS as a healer. Other than that, if the content does not have enrage mechanic, then at least the healers would be healing unless they're just literally AFK (without exaggerating the situation).

This is poor design because overhealing is a waste of your GCD. You are healing nothing.

Does it matter if you're healing nothing if casting that spell still gives you resource (MP) to use for attack?

Alternatively, add a bonus to overhealing, so if you overheal, you'll get some bonus to damage the next time you deal damage, but with some limitation and caps so people don't just overheal infinitely to only cast one DPS spell near the end.

There is no "playing a job differently" in XIV, jobs are designed linearly.

The point is, it has nothing to do with my proposal. That is a player issue.

That's a terrible idea. Not only does this punish healers who aren't as good, it makes solo instances on healer immensely difficult - and at the same time, makes them take forever to defeat the enemies because of how weak your actual healing is + how expensive your offensive spells are.

That can be solved with tuning.

[HyoMinPark]

Does it matter if you're healing nothing if casting that spell still gives you resource (MP) to use for attack?

Yes, it does. Because HP cannot be healed beyond 100%, so there is waste in any healing you throw out that goes beyond that. This is wasting a GCD on a pointless heal, and you are trying to justify this by arbitrarily attaching mana regeneration to this overheal/“healing stance”. As I said in my previous response to you, your entire system is a non-functional “healing for the sake of healing” system that will not work with the encounter design of this game. Not to mention, it is a very gatekeeping system that I can guarantee healer mains would not like or appreciate. I know I don’t want to be arbitrarily gatekeeped from dealing damage because you want to force meaningless healing on the healers. Versus actually giving us meaningful gameplay.

A heal that heals nothing means nothing. It is a waste of a GCD, and a wasteful contribution to a party. I prefer to actively contribute. Not burden. And I think a lot of the healer mains posting in this thread feel much the same. Healers don’t want to waste GCDs. They would rather contribute meaningfully to a party, and healing nothing is not a meaningful contribution.

Alternatively, add a bonus to overhealing, so if you overheal, you'll get some bonus to damage the next time you deal damage, but with some limitation and caps so people don't just overheal infinitely to only cast one DPS spell near the end.

Unless this damage increase is enough to make up for each pointless GCD you have to waste on overheal, it would still be a net loss.

Why do you think current Afflatus Misery is a damage loss? Because the GCDs spent on Solace or Rapture to build up to it do not offset the three Glare IIIs that you have to lose in order to get your blood lily—unless you are building up to Misery during downtime and not losing out on Glare III casts at all. This same thing applies to SGE’s Toxikon: because it is the same potency as Dosis III, it is a better use of your GCD to just cast Dosis III and heal with an oGCD Addersgall stack versus casting E. Diagnosis to absorb damage and farm Toxikon stacks. The only time you farm for them is during downtime.

You would need to multiply the base potency by the number of forced healing GCDs in order to make this a gain.



You said that you were a non-healer, and no offense, but it shows.

[Eraden]

I have only recently begun to try out healing (my main is BLM). I really love it but I have to admit that I am not very good at it (will keep trying to get better though). It requires a focus of attention that is above and beyond what is required for a DPS. I was curious when I first encountered this thread, about why healers would want their jobs to be even more complex. I have begun to realize though, that very good healers might find certain activities a lot more trivial than I do. I am not quite sure what could be done to alleviate this, for lack of a better word, boredom, but I suspect that you, my seniors here in this thread, have likely put a great deal of thought into this issue. This is why I will continue to keep reading this thread to learn more about this. Thank you all for this thought provoking discussion.

[linayar]

Unless this damage increase is enough to make up for each pointless GCD you have to waste on overheal

Sure, why not? I think you're putting too much emphasis on per GCD damage rather than overall damage per time.

Alternatively, we can let healers give damage buffs to the party from their healing rotation via combos and such. There are ways to help with party damage than direct per GCD attack.

[HyoMinPark]

Sure, why not? I think you're putting too much emphasis on per GCD damage rather than overall damage per time.

Alternatively, we can let healers give damage buffs to the party from their healing rotation via combos and such. There are ways to help with party damage than direct per GCD attack.

Your overall damage over time is going to decrease the more GCDs you spend on non-contributing casts, like pointless heals. Damage is the metric that matters the most in this game—by the developer’s own design, since they have removed every other interesting aspect of combat, and seriously reduced the impact of others (like healing—the amount healers have to heal has steadily decreased throughout the expansions). Since damage is the most important metric, it makes sense that it gets the most focus.

As for the importance of your GCD, I will direct you to the concept of ABC: Always Be Casting. Your GCD matters. What you use that GCD on matters even more. A damage GCD is far more important than a healing GCD that results in a significant or complete overheal because the damage GCD contributes to damage. Overhealing contributes nothing. A GCD used on healing that is not needed is pointless, and will not contribute anything to your team.


As for your second point:

Why would the developers ever implement damage buffs proc’d by healing rotations? What is the point in that when every other damage button is an oGCD weave (with the sole exception of Technical Finish)? It would be far simpler—and it would fall in line with content and job designs—to give healers buffs like Bravery that are oGCD and can be weaved between GCDs. Instead of locking them into a pointless healing rotation that will likely result in no meaningful healing when the buff is actually needed. Buffs are not deployed willy-nilly—they are on a relatively strict timer. If your buff alignment falls on the 2-minute mark, and there’s no outgoing damage during that 2-minute mark, well you’re contributing pointless healing to get a buff out when it would be far more meaningful to weave in an oGCD buff and continue to cast damaging spells.


You seem to be highly fixated on creating a system for healers in this game that not only goes against the content design, but that also implements healing purely for the sake of making healers heal. Even if it’s straight overheal and not at all meaningful or contributing to the party. I think you need to educate yourself more on encounter design in this game; and how healers actually function before making anymore suggestions.

[Rilifane]

Sure, why not? I think you're putting too much emphasis on per GCD damage rather than overall damage per time.

Alternatively, we can let healers give damage buffs to the party from their healing rotation via combos and such. There are ways to help with party damage than direct per GCD attack.

You want to push healing for the sake of healing at all costs.
For what?
So healers actually heal and feel like healers? They won't. It's like dpsing an enemy that is invuln, has a crazy damage reduction or can't drop below 1% - people either randomly press buttons out of sheer boredom and fool around with "lookie lookie I'm a dagger mage NIN hehe" or they build up resources if their class has them or they just stand around doing nothing because they know perfectly well that it doesn't matter what they do.

Your "BLM approach" for healers would be the same as targetable but invuln target for dps.
Making your actions feel impactful matters a great deal. If it didn't you could just tell every single class of every role to press buttons that won't do anything for 10min but charge up a mega nuke that goes after that. I can guarantee you that they won't like it.
And overhealing for the sole purpose of regenerating MP so you can even dps is just as bad, you're forcing people to spend an extended period of time doing somethung useless that isn't contributing at all just so they can do something actually useful for a few GCDs.
The BLM approach works on BLM because UI/ AF are completely different from the healing/ dps phases you suggest.
UI is where the true optimization takes place, it's not a necessary evil of doing nothing useful for 2-3 GCDs. You have the options to and try to make UI itself as impactful as possible while charging up a strong AF phase. UI is not "do useless stuff for big booms afterwards", let alone "do useless stuff that feels bad and doesn't contribute so you are even allowed to contribute for a few GCDs afterwards". UI is not a fixed rotation, you have several options for it and it's perhaps the biggest factor in the BLM's relatively high skill ceiling.

You're desperately trying to make healers use healing buttons even if they wouldn't contribute anything meaningful.
And no, tacking on a "but it regs MP for deeps!" mechanic is not meaningful.
There is a reason why any WHM worth their salt hated blowing a useless Lily for weaving/ movement or many ASTs hating Astrodyne being just a tacked-on, poorly designed last minute justification for seals to keep existing.