What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

As someone who generally enjoys darker and more morally grey stories, it isn't so much the lack of a happy ending for the Ancients that bothered me so much as the sheer lack of nuance and blame directed at the character responsible for their downfall and destruction. In a game that ordinarily handles heavy topics with a bit more tact, it simply feels incredibly out of place for Venat to be presented in the way that Endwalker portrayed.

I'm primarily a Garlean fan first and foremost. Before Endwalker, I was very wary of the way in which the destruction of their homeland would be handled. I expected smug arrogance from the Scions and dodgy implications that the Garleans had it coming. I was, thankfully, pleasantly surprised.

The Garleans weren't taken advantage of. They weren't excused for everything that they did, though it was recognised that their plight was so dire that trying to push for 'reparations' was in no way acceptable. Even after initial offers of aid were ignored, the Garleans weren't given up on. Finally - and perhaps most importantly - the story didn't ignore the weight of the Garleans having a point on some level. In the end, they were at a major disadvantage due to their typical inability to manipulate aether and had been persecuted and subjected to near genocide by forcing them to flee to the frozen wastes...where they were still being attacked until given a helping hand from Emet-Selch. That led to a reversal in their fortunes for a while though as we know it was part of a scheme to usher in the Rejoinings.

All in all, it's a pretty complicated situation that was handled with nuance. I hope it continues into the coming content patches and expansions - since at this point, the Garleans are the main element of the story that interest me.

So I have to admit, I was very baffled by the stark contrast between how the Garleans were handled compared to the Ancients. Personally if it wasn't for the Garlean conclusion being better than the Ancient's finale then I would have very likely quit. The only reason I'm giving 6.1 a fair chance is because there is a good story at times mixed in with the rest of Endwalker.

[Jeeqbit]

• The mighty Zodiark, which has been build up as this mighty(evil) entity over several expansions, turns out to be nothing but filler trash for the first Endwalker trial
• The true cause of the Final Days is a pet-project from an ancient which goes mad after observing countless dead world and possibly causing the death of several world by projecting negative emotions unto them, and is thus dead-set on bringing despair to every world, upon which said ancient goes mad and is now letting her run her course to test humanity if they can withstand/fight despair
• Venat, who hasn't had her memory wiped + still remembers you from being in Elpis, quite apparently doesn't lift a finger to learn about Dynamis herself or to mobilize the other ancients to end Meteion then and there, and instead chooses to turn herself into Hydaelyn, sunder the world and the inhabitants, thereby forcing them to live with and face despair and gambling that their resilience against despair might be enough to face Meteion one day

• The mighty Zodiark was sundered and there is a version of it on the moon of each shard, so it was a lot weaker and wasn't itself. Was it actually designed for fighting in the first place when that wasn't why it was summoned?
• Yes, that is the true cause of the Final Days. You're missing the point, which is that this "perfect" society was not as perfect as they believed it was. When faced with their own doom, they wouldn't know what to do because they have never had to struggle with anything before, so they just summoned a giant familiar to deal with it. When presented with Meteion's report, they would have been divided for the first time in their lives. Emet-Selch later tells us their ways would never had got them this far. By sundering them and making them struggle and contemplate doom regularly, they will know how to cope with division and threats to their existence.
• As I said, if she mobilized the other ancients to end Meteion, they would be divided on what to do for the first time in their lives. Some of them may agree that they should be discarded and they would fight over what to do about the situation. The division would probably be as destructive as the final days itself. She did mobilize a small amount of people that she could trust, but had to be careful not to spread word to Fandaniel because she couldn't trust him with the information. How would she convince Emet-Selch when he was not even convinced the first time?
• She already learned what Dynamis was. Learning more about it wasn't necessary. Traveling to Meteion was and space travel is what she spent years researching with her researchers (one of which becomes The Watcher).

[Lauront]

So much wrong in the above I don't know where to begin...

[SpectrePhantasia]

That was how I felt from 5.0, in all my admiration of it. Then the dissonance and injustice flowing from Endwalker's approach to Hydaelyn and the Ancients broke my brain and now I am quietly yet shamelessly internally clamoring for a chance to actually save them, whether through further time travel nonsense or however. Handwave it with more dynamis, I don't care! The writing integrity that mattered to me has already been largely thrown out the window by how 6.0 followed it up, so screw it, give me all the self-indulgent garbage now! I know the story, however the tone might change in response to criticism, will never concede Venat not being a good person, so I want my damn junk food consolation prize! This is what I have been reduced to.

Broke? My brain has been sundered into ten and three reflections. It feels so horrendously out of touch with the story that came before, that I can only assume that someone higher up the food chain stepped in and said "No you cant put her in a negative light," so they bent over backwards to play take-backsies.

Ah, to see a 6.0 that you and I could enjoy...

[KizuyaKatogami]

• The mighty Zodiark was sundered and there is a version of it on the moon of each shard, so it was a lot weaker and wasn't itself. Was it actually designed for fighting in the first place when that wasn't why it was summoned?
• Yes, that is the true cause of the Final Days. You're missing the point, which is that this "perfect" society was not as perfect as they believed it was. When faced with their own doom, they wouldn't know what to do because they have never had to struggle with anything before, so they just summoned a giant familiar to deal with it. When presented with Meteion's report, they would have been divided for the first time in their lives. Emet-Selch later tells us their ways would never had got them this far. By sundering them and making them struggle and contemplate doom regularly, they will know how to cope with division and threats to their existence.
• As I said, if she mobilized the other ancients to end Meteion, they would be divided on what to do for the first time in their lives. Some of them may agree that they should be discarded and they would fight over what to do about the situation. The division would probably be as destructive as the final days itself. She did mobilize a small amount of people that she could trust, but had to be careful not to spread word to Fandaniel because she couldn't trust him with the information. How would she convince Emet-Selch when he was not even convinced the first time?
• She already learned what Dynamis was. Learning more about it wasn't necessary. Traveling to Meteion was and space travel is what she spent years researching with her researchers (one of which becomes The Watcher).

I don’t even know why it’s so hard to understand. THE ECHO EXISTS. She can use the echo to show Emet-Selch of need be. Outside of that though i don’t understand how the only thing you could take away from Elpis Emet is “he wasn’t convinced.” They specifically show us that while not convinced or while he may not totally believe us, he still has a duty to the star and still has to investigate and trust in our claims. But come on now, it’s not like Venat is some stranger to him. He knew he was mind wiped, they’re both friends, she used to be an Azem.

As far as your opinion on the ancients goes, they sacrificed themselves to summon an entity to save the planet. I’m not sure how you can even deem this as a bad thing when even Venat herself states how mandatory he is. How is this any different from us summoning primals to power our spaceship or us summoning primals to fix the empty? The other translations of Emet’s line specifically says their efforts wouldn’t have gotten them to Ultima Thule. That’s it. Not that they wouldn’t have been able to combat Meteion.Also we’re shown they did have to struggle with things. One of the main plot points atm for pandaemonium is someone struggling to deal with the grief of losing a loved one.

[aveyond-dreams]

• The mighty Zodiark was sundered and there is a version of it on the moon of each shard, so it was a lot weaker and wasn't itself. Was it actually designed for fighting in the first place when that wasn't why it was summoned?
• Yes, that is the true cause of the Final Days. You're missing the point, which is that this "perfect" society was not as perfect as they believed it was. When faced with their own doom, they wouldn't know what to do because they have never had to struggle with anything before, so they just summoned a giant familiar to deal with it. When presented with Meteion's report, they would have been divided for the first time in their lives. Emet-Selch later tells us their ways would never had got them this far. By sundering them and making them struggle and contemplate doom regularly, they will know how to cope with division and threats to their existence.
• As I said, if she mobilized the other ancients to end Meteion, they would be divided on what to do for the first time in their lives. Some of them may agree that they should be discarded and they would fight over what to do about the situation. The division would probably be as destructive as the final days itself. She did mobilize a small amount of people that she could trust, but had to be careful not to spread word to Fandaniel because she couldn't trust him with the information. How would she convince Emet-Selch when he was not even convinced the first time?

Considering the fact that Zodiark and Hydaelyn are described has having a nearly-apocalyptic battle with each other I'd say yes he was likely designed with the ability to fight in order to, I dunno, defend his summoners? You know, that's kind of why we summon things?

The final days being caused by "the amalgamation of despair" was a poor choice as it was likely made with the intention to drive home a moral lesson than actually giving us something interesting to latch onto. Hermes/Meteion were uninteresting villains. By that extent, Dynamis was also a ludicrous plot element thrown in at the last second in a way that only makes sense when you're surrounded by Endwalker-launch levels of hype or twitch chat. Did they take inspiration from Sailor Moon or something for this?

Venat's decisions do not make sense. The only way I can rationalize them while still liking her character is through personal headcanons. I disagree with your proposed theory as Venat could likely influence Hades by way of Azem seeing as how she likely still speaks to them, and they speak to Hades regularly. I do not believe the Ancients would agree they would be worthy of destruction. The most probable outcome of that scenario would be Hermes facing some kind of punishment and the others creating a more well-thought out plan to defeat Meteion. Again, Dynamis should never have existed.

[Erendis]

Judging by Elpis cutscene there was no battle between them before sundering.

[aveyond-dreams]

Judging by Elpis cutscene there was no battle between them before sundering.

...that was not Venat performing the sundering. That was a summarized representation of what they experienced in the final days and does not accurately depict each event as they happened in order.

There was indeed a battle between them. It just wasn't shown. Instead the budget was spent making unique animations for tea swirling and the dinner/visit scene in Sharlayan.

[Ixon]

I wonder if the disconnect between what we see in Elpis vs what the Ancients laid out as their "thought out plan" were either because the thought out plan simply failed or just another disconnect in the plot. From what we had seen in dialogue, the Ancients had a plan involving Zodiark to sacrifice ancients the first time, sacrifice ancients again, then sacrifice the new life born from the "restored" Ehtheirys to bring all the sacrificed ancients back(someone correct me if I am wrong). However, both in ShB dialogue and in the Elpis cut scene it made it appear more that the first set of sacrifices was intended to work, didn't work, all hell broke loose, and they were going for round two. In the cut scene they were in between the first and second sacrifice, however the ancients where befuddled and not at all acting like things were going to plan. If it wasn't due to a simple hole in the story, I wonder if there is anything that could be explained as to why the plan with Zodiark was not going as intended.

[Theodric]

Judging by Elpis cutscene there was no battle between them before sundering.

Hydaelyn and Zodiark did clash, though it simply wasn't shown. The Elpis finale is little more than a stylistic and false depiction of the events that took place in a desperate attempt to deflect attention away from Venat being the one to set all the tragic events in the setting into motion.

My guess is that they didn't show a battle between Hydaelyn and Zodiark because doing so would clearly paint her as the aggressor and showing the actual Sundering taking place would further showcase just how awful a process it actually was.

Which in itself is a large part of the problem. The game had no issue showing Zenos grabbing Yotsuyu by the hair, or having Yotsuyu manipulate a villager into killing another. Or showing the gruesome effects of Black Rose. Or having Valens gleefully torment his underlings.

The game chickens out, however, whenever it comes to showing the supposed 'good guys' getting their hands dirty. It's a very childish approach and cheapens the better elements of the story elsewhere.

As much as I like Hien, for example, the whining about Garlemald's 'war crimes' seems pointless when he flooded Doma Castle and sent whoever was inside of it to a watery grave. Let's be honest - if the Garleans had condemned a bunch of Domans to a gruesome death through drowning and being crushed by debris, we'd never hear the end of it.

For me, it's not so much the acts themselves that bother me so much as the hypocrisy.

I frequently ask myself why the game insists on inserting lengthy lectures about heavy topics only to look the other way every single time one of 'good guys' does something worthy of contempt.

Personally it's why I don't consider the Scions or the player character to be 'heroes'. They're nothing of the sort and simply drift from place to place in order to force everybody else to adhere to their specific set of ordeals whilst also calling out anyone else who dares to do the same thing.

More than anything, the game's inability to own up to the questionable deeds of the protagonists is bitterly disappointing for me given that I usually find myself deliberately picking out the darker and more nuanced options in the various games that I play.