Endwalker vs shadowbringers story, which did you enjoy more and why? (spoilers)

[IdowhatIwant]

None of that is what I'm talking about. The post I quoted was claiming that EW's problem was setting the stakes on an threat that clearly wouldn't be carried through, ie. the destruction of the world.

So, generically speaking, I don't see that as different to any other story where a villain (or other disaster) threatens the protagonists. While it's not impossible to have stories where the protagonists lose in the end, it is highly unlikely in a standard story structure. There are plenty that revolve around the heroes setting out to thwart a world-ending catastrophe, so I don't see why EW specifically deserves scorn for introducing a similar degree of threat.

I was actually hoping that EW would end with the world being destroyed and the next expansion would be us traveling through the world of ruin. Sadly we stopped the weird bird goth from using her emo powers.

[KageTokage]

I do feel like they could've had the effects of the Final Days spread further before the finale to give more of an "Oh gods, the world needs saving now" vibe, like with the entire world having skies ablaze by the time we arrive in Ultima Thule and the amount of turning incidents starting to swell out of control, but it seems like they opted out of that in favor of keeping the blasphemy threat outside of EW zones contained strictly to the role quests. With them being completely optional, though, it really undersold how much danger the world was actually in and found it especially jarring that Ul'dah of all places side-stepped the issue entirely.

Having all the light return to the zones before the finale of ShB really gave me more of a pressing desire to get it all over with.

[Maltothoris]

I do feel like they could've had the effects of the Final Days spread further before the finale to give more of an "Oh gods, the world needs saving now" vibe, like with the entire world having skies ablaze by the time we arrive in Ultima Thule and the amount of turning incidents starting to swell out of control, but it seems like they opted out of that in favor of keeping the blasphemy threat outside of EW zones contained strictly to the role quests. With them being completely optional, though, it really undersold how much danger the world was actually in and found it especially jarring that Ul'dah of all places side-stepped the issue entirely.

Having all the light return to the zones before the finale of ShB really gave me more of a pressing desire to get it all over with.

I think thats probably one thing that irked a lot. The fact the final days sky only appeared in Thavnir and Garlemald. Imagine if on the lvl 88 quest line, it spread to the stormblood areas, then 89 the arr and hw areas and on ultima thule it reaches Sharlayan. That probably would of convened a sense of dread at the least. Imagine if you did those battles with final days sky with the blasphemies indeed of whatever clear day or sky it was during the gameplay.

[Rulakir]

I was surprised they didn't do more. Coming from WoW, we're used to pre-expansion events that occur in all the major cities and/or starting zones. Given how well FFXIV does phasing, I expected at least sky box changes and maybe some special blasphemy FATEs in other zones.

[kpxmanifesto]

They won't go that dark because it's simply not that kind of game.

They won't go that dark because the writers are afraid to take risks. It just seems they're more worried about killing a popular character and potentially upsetting a part of the player base. It's why a majority of the scions have incredibly thick plot armor.

[SugarPuff]

I don't see why "we know the world isn't really going to be destroyed" is something to treat as a specific failing of Endwalker or even FFXIV in general, because that's just the same suspension of disbelief called for in the vast majority of stories across any media.

You don't ever believe that the villain is truly going to win; the question is not whether but how the hero is going to overcome that threat.

I mean, I was thinking of it more in terms of how writers (particularly in the horror and sci-fi genre) don't need to worry about destroying the worlds they've created, to whatever ends they see fit. They may have put just as many, or more, hours into the creative process but it's not the same as a game franchise. It's not a failing of FFXIV in my opinion, but a limitation inherent to the media that perhaps could have been foreseen by the creators. If it were a novel or a movie I would wonder if the characters were going to somehow end up living in a different world, because the writers would have nothing to lose by doing it, but that's not true of FFXIV.

[Rulakir]

They won't go that dark because the writers are afraid to take risks. It just seems they're more worried about killing a popular character and potentially upsetting a part of the player base. It's why a majority of the scions have incredibly thick plot armor.

I wonder if that's Haurchefant's fault? The Famitsu survey listed him as the #3 most popular character and HW was the last time any major protagonists were killed.

[IdowhatIwant]

I wonder if that's Haurchefant's fault? The Famitsu survey listed him as the #3 most popular character and HW was the last time any major protagonists were killed.

Papalymo died after him.

[Rulakir]

Papalymo died after him.

It was still in HW.

[Iscah]

I mean, I was thinking of it more in terms of how writers (particularly in the horror and sci-fi genre) don't need to worry about destroying the worlds they've created, to whatever ends they see fit. They may have put just as many, or more, hours into the creative process but it's not the same as a game franchise. It's not a failing of FFXIV in my opinion, but a limitation inherent to the media that perhaps could have been foreseen by the creators. If it were a novel or a movie I would wonder if the characters were going to somehow end up living in a different world, because the writers would have nothing to lose by doing it, but that's not true of FFXIV.

I can't think of any examples of a story ending with the world getting destroyed despite the heroes' attempts to save it. I wouldn't ever anticipate it to happen unless there's some kind of specific foreshadowing going on within the individual story.

A stand-alone story still has narrative rules. It still creates a world and it's still a tragic thing if that world gets destroyed - for the people within the story if not for the reader, but quite possibly for the reader as well. Unless you can write a convincing case for it being a good (or at least narratively enjoyable) thing that the heroes failed and the world got destroyed, people are not likely to find it a satisfying ending.

The average story that starts with a threat to the world will end with the threat being averted by the heroes. That is just how stories work at a basic level. It's not something that the writers of FFXIV have any good reason to subvert even if they wanted to and narratively were free to do so.