Looking back at this Yoshi P statement(story spoilers)

[KizuyaKatogami]

Look, I just asked to give me what counts as a death in your eyes. Nothing more. You posted a thread talking about a statement Yoshi P made about character deaths and said that in the past 3 expansions no one has died, I asked you to explain to me what meets the criteria for a death in your view and what doesn’t.

If we can’t tell who has or hasn’t died in your opinion then we can’t really discuss whether what you think is a problem is actually one or not. If you’re uncomfortable, then I apologize but I do think this an important thing to ask in the context of what you wanted to discuss.

And let’s be clear repeatedly calling me an “amateur lore enthusiast,” an insult you stole from Lauront in an older thread we had a discussion in, as well as repeatedly accusing me of derailing, doesn’t exactly engender good faith discussion or make me feel very comfortable mind you.

That wasnt even a jab, youre contradicitng your own statements. You preach about good faith discussions, yet youre just as condescending,rude,and engage in bad faith arguments as much as the people you complain about. ive already explained numerous times who has died, your post with the pictures was so out of place because i had already said those characters died, but it doesnt change the fact that happened more than 3 expansions ago.I didnt steal any insults, its not even an insult in my eyes, everyone ftmp is an amateur lore enthusiast in comparison to the actual writers, and i dont recall repeatedly saying it either. Now youre just insinuating things. You are derailing the conversation. Youre continuously begging and asking for an answer to something i already answered and has little relevance to the thread overall and ignoring all my other posts where i explained it. That isnt bad faith, its the truth. Im not going to continue wasting my post limit at this point. It's like youre purposely being obtuse and ignoring all my statements. You're not contributing to the discussion and instead just posting snarky pictures at this point about goalposts etc etc. Its childish and yes, derailing.

[Lauront]

It's really amusing when you consider that person was going around tone-policing people in another thread.



Projection much?

Yes, somehow they chose to omit... well, this, this and this, and to focus on reyntime.

I think the charge fits quite well.

[EaraGrace]

That wasnt even a jab, youre contradicitng your own statements. You preach about good faith discussions, yet youre just as condescending,rude,and engage in bad faith arguments as much as the people you complain about. ive already explained numerous times who has died, your post with the pictures was so out of place because i had already said those characters died, but it doesnt change the fact that happened more than 3 expansions ago.

It does since the only one who hasn’t died within the last two expansions was Papalymo, who died the patch directly before the third expansion. But sure, exactly within three expansions still includes the other three, which is why I asked for your reasoning so I could understand why you said you didn’t consider them.

I didnt steal any insults, its not even an insult in my eyes, everyone ftmp is an amateur lore enthusiast in comparison to the actual writers, and i dont recall repeatedly saying it either. Now youre just insinuating things. You are derailing the conversation. Youre continuously begging and asking for an answer to something i already answered and has little relevance to the thread overall and ignoring all my other posts where i explained it. That isnt bad faith, its the truth. Im not going to continue wasting my post limit at this point. It's like youre purposely being obtuse and ignoring all my statements. You're not contributing to the discussion and instead just posting snarky pictures at this point about goalposts etc etc. Its childish and yes, derailing.

I see now it was pointless to pretend this was some kind of discussion. Should just respond with gifs at this point. And yknow I would have actually agreed if you just said “alright we did have some deaths but given the expansions themes and the stakes more losses would’ve been emotionally satisfying.”

Yes, somehow they chose to omit... well, this, this and this, and to focus on reyntime.

I think the charge fits quite well.

Yes, the charge fits because of a post from 12 pages before, a slightly condescending remark in the first line, and post made 10 minutes after my own. Really???

A thread in which I got called a loser right after.

We are beyond parody.

[KizuyaKatogami]

It does since the only one who hasn’t died within the last two expansions was Papalymo, who died the patch directly before the third expansion. But sure, exactly within three expansions still includes the other three, which is why I asked for your reasoning so I could understand why you said you didn’t consider them.



I see now it was pointless to pretend this was some kind of discussion. Should just respond with gifs at this point. And yknow I would have actually agreed if you just said “alright we did have some deaths but given the expansions themes and the stakes more losses would’ve been emotionally satisfying.”



Yes, the charge fits because of a post from 12 pages before, a slightly condescending remark in the first line, and post made 10 minutes after my own. Really???

A thread in which I got called a loser right after.

We are beyond parody.

YOu were responding with mainly gifs before, there wouldnt be a difference. We had no losses to the main cast this expansion, or in ShB, or in Stormblood. This is factual, YOSHI P SAID THIS HIMSELF. Im not sure what there is to argue when yoshi p himself says this. You're right, it is pointless tyring to have a discussionw ith you because you resord to condescension, bad faith, and ignore any proof whatsoever people bring forward because it doesnt line up with your opinion. This is beyond sad.

[Lauront]

Let's put it this way - I think it's pretty obvious that ReynTime's post was singled out because it mentioned criticism of EW, because objectively, his post is no more 'condescending' than the person he was responding to. As for the poster calling you a loser? Take it up with them.

At the end of the day, no one is obliged to entertain these constant back and forths of yours, and if Kizuya does not want to, perhaps take the hint, and move on.

[EaraGrace]

YOu were responding with mainly gifs before, there wouldnt be a difference. We had no losses to the main cast this expansion, or in ShB, or in Stormblood. This is factual, YOSHI P SAID THIS HIMSELF. Im not sure what there is to argue when yoshi p himself says this. You're right, it is pointless tyring to have a discussionw ith you because you resord to condescension, bad faith, and ignore any proof whatsoever people bring forward because it doesnt line up with your opinion. This is beyond sad.

You’ve offered nothing. Not evidence, not arguments nor reasoning. You instead offer the Yoshi P quote as the end all be all, while you also repeatedly questioning the logic and validity of Yoshi Ps quotes in every other discussion and insisting that his judgement of the story is worth questioning when it disagrees in any way from your own.

And then you have the gall to say I’m sad.

Whatever man.

Let's put it this way - I think it's pretty obvious that ReynTime's post was singled out because it mentioned criticism of EW, because objectively, his post is no more 'condescending' than the person he was responding to. As for the poster calling you a loser? Take it up with them.

At the end of the day, no one is obliged to entertain these constant back and forths of yours, and if Kizuya does not want to, perhaps take the hint, and move on.

You don’t even have the self respect to admit that you missed the mark there. The idea that I singled their post out for their EW criticism, when you also used an example of that poster being an ass to someone defending EW, is ridiculous. Maybe, and this is crazy, but maybe I just didn’t see the other posts because that would take going back 12 pages!

Maybe I think the person I defended is also a jerk and didn’t see that earlier context because it was buried!

No couldn’t be.

[KizuyaKatogami]

You’ve offered nothing. Not evidence, not arguments nor reasoning. You instead offer the Yoshi P quote as the end all be all, while you also repeatedly questioning the logic and validity of Yoshi Ps quotes in every other discussion and insisting that his judgement of the story is worth questioning when it disagrees in any way from your own.

And then you have the gall to say I’m sad.

Whatever man.

Theres a difference between what is being said in each quote. The ones i typically take issue with are opinionated ones, not ones backed by literal objective facts. You resort to condescending manner and then have the gall to try and police others on how they talk?

Whatever man.

[IdowhatIwant]

I don’t need you to worry about me, it seems more like you don’t agree with my opinion and you want me to quiet down about it. I don’t think it’s very crazy to want to see some grim and darker situations actually affect the main protagonists and not some random npc’s we’ve known for a few minutes, especially if the game is going to advertise itself as high stakes, end of the world apocalypse etc etc. It’s been 3 expansions now with no significant deaths. Many ff games in the series have had prominent characters deaths that it used to help drive the story forward, and i feel it would make a lot of situations here feel a lot more impactful. As it is many people feel the final days were a joke. Only essentially reached a total of 2 areas and the scions all came out literally unscathed. Now imagine if they had actually had consequences or one of them died, it would leave a much more lasting impression. Even Yoshi P in this quote seems to agree, in a story like this you need sacrifice on both sides so i’m not sure why so many people are acting confused. This isn’t supposed to be a fluffy anime game, or at least it never always was.

Well, the final days did reach other areas, it was just tucked away behind the role quests that most players don't want to do and wouldn't be capable of doing them all before reaching the end unless they spent a lot of time leveling.
The big issue is the expansions over all was about moving on past suffering grief and loss. And sure through out the expansions most of the scions has experienced that at some point and had to move past it. The issue is that when you create an expansion with the theme, but don't reintroduce your protagonist overcoming this again it falls on deaf ears. Even if they showed all the characters and things we over came like they did towards the end, it still would not provide the feeling that your player had to overcome some sort of despair and hardship in the expansion. Between most of the dark scenes in this expansions you were chilling and drinking coffee with the scions like you were on vacation.
The only character that you could consider died due to despair or grief was maybe the Garlean General that committed suicide. But his suicide was clearly explained to be due to his extreme nationalistic faith, to where he would rather die than see his people owe savages a favor.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Well, the final days did reach other areas, it was just tucked away behind the role quests that most players don't want to do and wouldn't be capable of doing them all before reaching the end unless they spent a lot of time leveling.
The big issue is the expansions over all was about moving on past suffering grief and loss. And sure through out the expansions most of the scions has experienced that at some point and had to move past it. The issue is that when you create an expansion with the theme, but don't reintroduce your protagonist overcoming this again it falls on deaf ears. Even if they showed all the characters and things we over came like they did towards the end, it still would not provide the feeling that your player had to overcome some sort of despair and hardship in the expansion. Between most of the dark scenes in this expansions you were chilling and drinking coffee with the scions like you were on vacation.
The only character that you could consider died due to despair or grief was maybe the Garlean General that committed suicide. But his suicide was clearly explained to be due to his extreme nationalistic faith, to where he would rather die than see his people owe savages a favor.

Yeah i know the final days somewhat reached the other areas, but even in the role quests i feel it wasnt properly conveyed. We didnt see any of the horrible natural disasters that happened in the original final days, of winds ceasing to blow, water becoming poisoned, etc etc. It felt so tame in comparison. Not even sharlayan get the red skies, they all but tease it and then....nothing. But i agree in regards to suffering and thats my problem with it. We're shown the garleans who actually do suffer and have had to struggle and then we transition to oh peaceful sharlayan, having lunch dates and drinking coffee while theres people suffering in the cold. Again, to me it comes across as rather tone deaf. The scions are all just perfect and immune to despair apparently. It would have at least meant more had one or two of them started to turn and they need to be snapped out of it. It would at least make them seem somewhat human.

[Lauront]

The only character that you could consider died due to despair or grief was maybe the Garlean General that committed suicide. But his suicide was clearly explained to be due to his extreme nationalistic faith, to where he would rather die than see his people owe savages a favor.

Sort of - it's postulated he was trying to ensure his men were spared as an alternative explanation. They tried to make a clear point that Garleans deeply distrusted outsiders and reliance on promises made by them due to past history of betrayals.