Endwalker vs shadowbringers story, which did you enjoy more and why? (spoilers)

[Lauront]

Honestly yeah, I 100% agree with this. I really hope the EX version fixes this like it did for Hades.

Equally, I wish they didn't have to rely so much on the Minstrel's made up version to do that... with trust trials in the future, although perhaps vainly, I hope they'd use that to feel less constrained in their MSQ DF trial design. With Hades it wasn't as pronounced as it was circa the last 10% of it - this is closer to a full 35%, but I have to say it's one reason I vastly prefer the .3 trials like Tsukuyomi or SoS.

[Thaciscokidd]

Shadowbringers, the pacing and overall story being the most part. Endwalker was more like a sprint towards the end of the story. It had a lot of good story points but they all would have benefited from a little bit more time to bloom properly. Like Meteion given the Elidibus treatment and given a little bit more time(a couple of .x patches) in the villain spotlight, or long lived baddies like the Garleans and Zodiark not ushered to the B plot.

With the Chrono Series, FF11, and FF8 under there belts, I'm surprised at how hamfisted the time travel was handed. Like it was good in a RPGmmo that Hydaelyn had a bunch of warriors of light and Shadowbringers showing that just about anyone had the chance to be a WoL thus making stuff like us summoning others to fight for us seem valid, but while I love Elpis for shining a light on the unsundered, it also made it feel like we're in a Fry's Grandfather type situation. It would of been a really neat thing if we gained something more than the knowledge about the origins of Meteion. There is already a branch in time were the WoL straight up dies from the black rose.

And finally as important to a lot of the Main Ascian's story as they are, unless Pandemonium goes a way I really hope it does, I really feel like we might have missed the bus on actually meeting Azem.

[TheMightyMollusk]

And finally as important to a lot of the Main Ascian's story as they are, unless Pandemonium goes a way I really hope it does, I really feel like we might have missed the bus on actually meeting Azem.

We'll probably never see Azem in person, because they're supposed to be us as an Ancient. The game matches Azem's gender to your character, so they're already mutable.

Also the whole "Azem's familiar" cover story would fall apart and cause too many questions.

[Thaciscokidd]

We'll probably never see Azem in person, because they're supposed to be us as an Ancient. The game matches Azem's gender to your character, so they're already mutable.

Also the whole "Azem's familiar" cover story would fall apart and cause too many questions.

I don't believe so. Azem is always framed as someone who thinks outside of the box and probably would go with the whole familiar thing. Its one of the reasons why people were so ready to accept that the WoL is just a familiar of Azem and one of the reasons why I am surprised that we have never met them.

Its a really missed opportunity. While we experienced Hythlodaeus in Elpis, Azem the only other person that Emet considered a close friend and shaped him to act a certain way towards the WoL just because of the similarities.

To me it has always felt like the WoL is Simon and Azem is Kamina. We do all this stuff just like Azem would have done to the point you'd think he'd show up(like Fray did in the Dark Knight 30-50 job quest) and give us a boost or encourage us in some way.

Sidenote: If Urianger's specualtion ends up being true then there might be another chance for us to actually meet Azem in one more place so this point might turn out to be moot.

[Denishia]

If we're talking about expansions as a whole, it is entirely too soon to make an assessment.

I'd suggest tabling this discussion until the end of the expansion, and then we'll talk.

The most sensible answer.

Endwalker, even if it had some lower lows and higher highs, had more variety than Shadowbringers and fewer areas where the pacing dragged for me, and the variety worked in its favor. Shadowbringers benefited from the nearly blank slate of the self-contained world that had homages to the ARR zones, but Endwalker fulfilled the mammoth task of referencing and tying in everything, and even began to justify Zenos's purpose for the overall theme instead of a character I was already bored sick of before his introductory cutscene was finished. On a petty personal note, I adored the narrator in Ardbert for Shadowbringers, but every single audible second of Emet Selch's voice was painful and thus made every new zone introduction aggravating and sucked out my enjoyment. The Tempest as a whole was my least favorite zone in the entire game, from OST to visuals, so that no zone in Endwalker was as annoying (until returning to Ultima Thule and the lyrics version of the zone music stayed) helps, in that all zones were unique enough to feel both distinct from each other and past zones. Also I will never not be impressed that we continued the Ascian/Ancients' homage to IX with Terra as the dying world leeching off of the newer world Gaia with a redo of the Endsinger as Necron, only explained and presented better.

[KizuyaKatogami]

If we're talking about expansions as a whole, it is entirely too soon to make an assessment.

I'd suggest tabling this discussion until the end of the expansion, and then we'll talk.

The endwalker story is over though, the devs stated as much. The story isn’t continuing until 6.3 like other expansions. The story is over and 6.1+ is new. So this is the best time as any to discuss it.

[Zaniel]

Both, there's way too much ree'ing about various expansions. With a story this long and with this many characters will every single moment hit perfectly for every player? Unlikely, but people seem unable to distinguish good vs bad vs "I would have written it differently". Is Meteion a bit of a left field late game McGuffin-with-feathers? Sure yes but that doesn't mean it didn't work. Would I personally have preferred a longer build up to the fight with Zodiark? Yeah sure but the version delivered still worked. Every expansion had its particular moment of pacing issues where excitement tripped into tedium for a short period but on the whole nothing serious.

For what is the most detailed story-telling in MMO (and maybe gaming) history I can drift over the 10% mis-steps and just enjoy the 90% that hits hard. For me Shadowbringers had better lore and world building and was more cohesive, Endwalker had more emotion and "Yes!" moments, so I like them both equally for different reasons.

[Iscah]

The endwalker story is over though, the devs stated as much.

As far as I'm aware, that could just mean that they wanted to have the big finish in 6.0 instead of, say, having Hydaelyn be the 6.0 final boss and having to wait until 6.3 to fight the Endsinger. (A bit like Heavensward has Thordan as the final boss but it's very definitely Not Over Yet and the ending isn't as satisfying as it should be.)

Shadowbringers seemed to definitively bring its plot to a close in 5.0 and yet still found further elements to draw it out into 5.X, so I'm not convinced that we are going to have an entirely new arc starting in 6.X either. There are still potential loose threads in the catastrophic aftermath of not only the Final Days but whatever the dissipation of Zodiark and Hydaelyn has done to the Lifestream.

I expect 6.X to be a transition phase setting the stage for a proper new story arc beginning in 7.0.

[IdowhatIwant]

Story wise I think Endwalker is probably the worst expansion so far. It suffered the same issue as Stormblood by trying to tell a story over to many various areas. The plot was basically your chilling with the boys eating breakfast and drinking coffee, then suddenly you are doing something crazy that ends with what felt like a random twist. The zones were mostly bad, I was not excited about the moon since they announced it. We have a plot surrounding the end of times which only really happens in one area of the world, where no important characters were. The villain was revealed to be a random bird girl that one of the ascians made.... The more I look back at Endwalker the dumber the plot feels to me.

Shadowbringers probably had the best plot so far and I enjoyed the high fantasy aspects of it. It really brought everything in the plot so far together and almost felt like it could be its own game.

[Voross]

In terms of the overall story I think Endwalker has Shadowbringers beat, but unfortunately the pacing in Endwalker is ATROCIOUS.

They advertised the length of the new story but at least 1/3 of that story was pointless filler. It makes sense for a story to have highs and lows, but if the lows don't contribute ANYTHING to the overall storyline of the expansion then it would be better without them in it.