What's next for new jobs after Endwalker.

[Azurarok]

iirc a pretty common portrayal of paper talismans as weapons is the user slapping them onto the target before inciting a spell, so it could be interesting if an Onmyoji could tag enemies like SGE tags party members or place an AoE zone using them, then blast curses/seals and such from it. Could probably also use it to mark targets for shikigami to attack, assuming they also cover that part of old SMN too.

[ty_taurus]

This is a public forum to discuss ideas. Not my fault if your ideas are easily shot down because your "theorycrafting" is kind of myopic. If you don't like constructive critique, don't post things for public comment.

And for the record, don't misrepresent my arguments as "I don't like that." I vet ideas based on the self-apparent design philosophy of FFXIV. If there is any personal preference in the matter, it is that I prefer ideas that actually make sense within XIV's existing design choices, instead of having to make all sorts of exceptions, excuses, and appeals to ignorance to sustain hope for them appearing. If I don't like your idea, my personal taste in job fantasies has very little to do with it (and I generally make the distinction when I can); it's just an objectively pretty weak idea.

You know, there's an entire mobile game based around the concept and aesthetic of the Onmyoji fantasy where literally every character is either an Omnyoji or a Shikigami. You know how well that game did? Well last year it was the #9th most grossing mobile game of Q1 2021 and the #11th most streamed mobile game. Source: https://nikopartners.com/netease-ear...16.5%25%20QoQ.

Mobile gaming is also the most profitable gaming format.

And also, the job was already considered to be added during Stormblood, so clearly the design team thought it highly enough of the concept already. And before you leap to the trigger of saying "well, they didn't end up choosing it now, did they?" keep in mind that it lost to Red Mage, one of the original 6 jobs of Final Fantasy and THE most popular job being discussed by the player base at that time. In other words, it lost to a fairly massive contender. So no, I disagree that the concept is an "objectively pretty weak idea," and the fact that you think that's an "objective" statement is quite telling.

It is a public forum, as you gently stated, which also means people are also free to tell you you're blatantly wrong when you decide to give your "constructive" criticism. You're right though that it's never fun or fair to put words in someone's mouth, so I'll gladly apologize if you felt I was misrepresenting your perspective on the concept. But I also think you're not doing a very good job of representing the "self-apparant" design philosophy of FFXIV since the two new jobs we got, on paper, would sound strikingly similar to other jobs we already have.

- A physical, melee ranged job that uses dark power with a large, two-handed weapon? Oh, you mean Dark Knight.
- A technical combat medic that juggles healing with offensive magic? Oh, you mean Scholar.

It almost sounds like you can very easily misrepresent a job concept as an existing style using loose descriptors in an attempt to write it off as repetitive and unnecessary when, in actually, is just poorly representing what a job idea can possibly achieve.

[ty_taurus]

I wanted to add something in regards to the tension that's built up within the thread, because I don't meant propose that this topic can only be healthy so long as people placate one another with blind agreement.

First and foremost, any job idea is realistically unlikely until we have some amount of evidence that would point us toward potential job concepts, which we won't be seeing any hints of until at least 6.3 (which tends to be the patch that teases a new job in some way). I think that should go without saying. That doesn't mean we can't talk about and theorize about what concepts could be even if they won't be.

Additionally, we can also talk about counter arguments to a given job concept if those counter arguments make sense. I cannot agree in good faith that any concept can be objectively 'not dynamic enough' because fiction has taught us that many unorthodox weapons and objects can be made to look flashy and exciting. Examples like umbrellas, yoyos, ice skates, instruments, stuffed animals, and many more have not only been all done in media before, but also all of these have been covered by SE at some point thus far. It's all about the rule of cool. How you do it matters so much more than how it might be used conventionally.

That said, there are reasons why some ideas many not be likely in FFXIV, and we can talk about those. We just shouldn't be weaponizing subjective statements against one another because it just comes across as disingenuous.

To give some examples of jobs that are very unlikely at this point, look at the Hero's Gauntlet jobs: Thief, Necromancer, and Berserker. Each of these has been officially deconfirmed at one point or another, and while it's not impossible that Yoshida could change his mind at any time, it's not likely that we'll see any of these 3. For Berserker, it's largely because Warrior kind of is Berserker. Warrior in most titles was a fairly generic concept of a job whos identity was just "uses weapons." So to give it more identity, they ended up basically utilizing Berserker's identity. We could theoretically go with X-2's Berserker who fought with claws, but there are quite literal Berserker themes built into Warrior, and this has been directly discussed in the past.

Thief and Necromancer, on the other hand, were deconfirmed on a basis of morality. Both have been stated to be concepts too immoral that wouldn't feel appropriate on the warrior of light in XIV's story from Yoshida's perspective.

I really don't want to be a keyboard warrior for all job ideas that can be or will be, but if we want to discuss ideas more critically, then we should aim to do so with clearer points.

[Tulzscha]

Thief and Necromancer, on the other hand, were deconfirmed on a basis of morality. Both have been stated to be concepts too immoral that wouldn't feel appropriate on the warrior of light in XIV's story from Yoshida's perspective.

Boooooooo.

Hey maybe that can change now that we kinda have to redefine what the WoL is all about now.

[Rymi64]

So since we have reaper and it's enshroud form we could get morpher . I'd also take a magic twin pistol caster job

[Raikai]

First and foremost, any job idea is realistically unlikely until we have some amount of evidence that would point us toward potential job concepts, which we won't be seeing any hints of until at least 6.3 (which tends to be the patch that teases a new job in some way). I think that should go without saying. That doesn't mean we can't talk about and theorize about what concepts could be even if they won't be.

Hm... If memory won't fail, I think EW jobs had just about 1 tease in Yoshi-P's shirt with the Reaper theme, other than that we didn't see anything hinted ingame - we actually had zero clues for Sage until its reveal, when speculators were certain that it would be Chemist/Apothecarian due it appearing in a recent quest line.

On topic... I think the safest bet to assume is that they are going to balance the job roster, so I think that 7.0 will introduce 2 dpsers: one in the caster slot and another one in the physical ranged slot.

After that, I honestly keep thinking how sustainable it is for XIV to keep adding more jobs than that when their job system is so cemented. Tanks and Healers already have a very similar gameplay, DPSers not as much, but even so... At some point severe rendundancies are due to happen. I remember being really excited from what they told Sage was going to be, but in practice, it's not that different from the other healers on a foundational level.

Past 7.0 I would be really interested in seeing more structural changes to the combat system, something that allowed more distinct jobs to be added, or the old ones to receive actual brand new features.

Can you ever think about Apothecary being a healer that uses a combo system to heal? Or if they improved the game's responsivity in a way that allowed a Beastmaster or Puppetmaster to use a pet to tank? Or encounters where CC actions actually mattered? The combat code allowing channeled actions to be actually good enough to be used as a main job mechanic? Sometimes people wish for very out of the box ideas for the jobs, but before that the developers need to change/upgrade the combat's basic structure, both on how they design encounters and also with the game's code.

Or they could stay as it is - it works - but the brick walls are going to appear at some point.

[ty_taurus]

Hm... If memory won't fail, I think EW jobs had just about 1 tease in Yoshi-P's shirt with the Reaper theme, other than that we didn't see anything hinted ingame - we actually had zero clues for Sage until its reveal, when speculators were certain that it would be Chemist/Apothecarian due it appearing in a recent quest line.

On topic... I think the safest bet to assume is that they are going to balance the job roster, so I think that 7.0 will introduce 2 dpsers: one in the caster slot and another one in the physical ranged slot.

After that, I honestly keep thinking how sustainable it is for XIV to keep adding more jobs than that when their job system is so cemented. Tanks and Healers already have a very similar gameplay, DPSers not as much, but even so... At some point severe rendundancies are due to happen. I remember being really excited from what they told Sage was going to be, but in practice, it's not that different from the other healers on a foundational level.

Past 7.0 I would be really interested in seeing more structural changes to the combat system, something that allowed more distinct jobs to be added, or the old ones to receive actual brand new features.

Can you ever think about Apothecary being a healer that uses a combo system to heal? Or if they improved the game's responsivity in a way that allowed a Beastmaster or Puppetmaster to use a pet to tank? Or encounters where CC actions actually mattered? The combat code allowing channeled actions to be actually good enough to be used as a main job mechanic? Sometimes people wish for very out of the box ideas for the jobs, but before that the developers need to change/upgrade the combat's basic structure, both on how they design encounters and also with the game's code.

Or they could stay as it is - it works - but the brick walls are going to appear at some point.

I think the Apothecary/Chemist drop in 5.3 was supposed to be the hint. Sage's concept began as a (second) try at Apothecary, but they ended up shifting to Sage instead. Regardless, the job is basically a sci-fantasy magic doctor, which isn't too off base with Apothecary. It's definitely been more heavy-handed in the past, like with Red Mage when Alisaie returned to the story, and I think it was 4.3 that Gaius returned to show off the OG Gunblade of FFXIV.

[Rymi64]

Gnb and dnc didn't really get hints for them

[Mugear_bahamut]

So let’s think about it this way.
During the recent live letter, Yoshi-P said that they won’t be adding 2 DPS jobs at once, as they did in Stormblood.
He also mentioned they’re not adding 3 jobs at once like in Heavensward.

There are currently:

4 Tanks: 2 MT 2 OT
4 Healers: 2 Pure 2 Barrier
5 Melee: 2 Striking 2 Maiming 1 Scouting
3 Ranged: 2 Support 1 Selfish
4 Casters: 2 Crit-based 2 SpS-based(One is limited)

There are at least 5 more expansions in XIV’s main story.
They also have a pattern of adding a healer or tank at intervals.
If you think of them pairing a DPS with a Healer or Tank, it would go like this:

(The DPS slots are just examples according to their released order up until now)

7.0 OT Tank, Scouting
8.0 Pure Healer, Striking
9.0 MT Tank, Selfish Ranged
10.0 Barrier Healer, Maiming
11.0 Scouting, Blue Mage is a normal Job(Assuming it’s the Whalaqee expansion)

We end up with:

6 Tanks: 3 MT 3 OT
6 Healers: 3 Pure 3 Barrier
9 Melee: 3 Striking 3 Maiming 3 Scouting
4 Ranged: 2 Support 2 Selfish
4 Casters: 2 Crit-based 2 SpS-based

[Rymi64]

So let’s think about it this way.
During the recent live letter, Yoshi-P said that they won’t be adding 2 DPS jobs at once, as they did in Stormblood.
He also mentioned they’re not adding 3 jobs at once like in Heavensward.

There are currently:

4 Tanks: 2 MT 2 OT
4 Healers: 2 Pure 2 Barrier
5 Melee: 2 Striking 2 Maiming 1 Scouting
3 Ranged: 2 Support 1 Selfish
4 Casters: 2 Crit-based 2 SpS-based(One is limited)

There are at least 5 more expansions in XIV’s main story.
They also have a pattern of adding a healer or tank at intervals.
If you think of them pairing a DPS with a Healer or Tank, it would go like this:

(The DPS slots are just examples according to their released order up until now)

7.0 OT Tank, Scouting
8.0 Pure Healer, Striking
9.0 MT Tank, Selfish Ranged
10.0 Barrier Healer, Maiming
11.0 Scouting, Blue Mage is a normal Job(Assuming it’s the Whalaqee expansion)

We end up with:

6 Tanks: 3 MT 3 OT
6 Healers: 3 Pure 3 Barrier
9 Melee: 3 Striking 3 Maiming 3 Scouting
4 Ranged: 2 Support 2 Selfish
4 Casters: 2 Crit-based 2 SpS-based

I don't recall him saying that at all. Can I get a timestamp for that?