What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[EgilTheStressedMage]

It isn't the people who are fond of the Ancients who are going around insisting that if someone likes the antagonists in a video game then they're 'bad people', or sending death threats to people with different opinions and personal tastes.

From what I've seen, the stance from those who like the Ancients and who also post in this thread has consistently been that they're happy to agree to disagree - and that would be the end of it, were it not for certain posters who behave as if doubting Venat or disliking her in any capacity is some grave sin.

I think it's telling, if nothing else, that some of the same posters who spent the entirety of Shadowbringers railing on the Ascians for engaging in 'genocide' are now trying to rewrite the definition of the act itself so that 'mommy' can continue to be the 'supreme deity' that they've envisioned within their mind's eye.

Which is fair enough! Nobody else is obligated to go along with it, though.

I suppose we can also take comfort in the simple fact that the pendulum is starting to swing in the opposite direction again - and so the desperate attempts to try and limit discussion are now starting to fall apart even on sites well known for hive-mind communities.

Meh, same hive, different queen. I've been suspicious of Hydaelyn since my character's creation back in 2018. I acknowledge that Venat made a screwed up decision. But what's done is done. Could not be more in the past if it tried. Remedying it requires literal character deletion, which would be canonizing yet another aspect of the game itself which wouldn't be that surprising but no one is going to do that unless they have actually washed their hands of this game forever.

[PawPaw]

I’m simply voicing my disagreement like PawPaw said they were. Is this not an open Internet forum?

You can roam wherever your heart desires; As long as you're not trying to police where others whose views differ from yours can and cannot post.

[Theodric]

I don't think that the writers succeeded at not making Hydaelyn 'evil' because the deliberate genocide of one's own race and inaction in response to avoidable events certainly qualifies as an evil act in the eyes of many.

I daresay a fair few of us are less interested in protecting the virtue of 'mommy' and are more concerned with whether the story being told makes sense and is logical.

The story intends to move on to new things, though hopefully those 'new things' are compelling and the writers manage to avoid some of the same pitfalls that led to a rushed conclusion of many of the game's long running plot threads. I'm not yet convinced that we won't see the Ancients brought up again in the future if need be - simply due to how hard FFXIV goes with attempts at fanservice and because WoW realised its mistake in rapidly burning through many of the story elements that got people invested in the game in the first place.

[EaraGrace]

You can roam wherever your heart desires; As long as you're not trying to police where others whose views differ from yours can and cannot post.

Of course, I do however stand by my position that brigading threads is generally unwise if one wants good discussions.

I don't think the writers succeeded at not making Hydaelyn 'evil' because the deliberate genocide of one's own race and inaction in response to avoidable events certainly qualifies as an evil act in the eyes of many.

I daresay a fair few of us are less interested in protecting the virtue of 'mommy' and are more concerned with whether the story being told makes sense and is logical.

I saw less strawmen when I lived next to a farm.

[Theodric]

It isn't a strawman. Nobody is obligated to agree with the idea that genocide is good, actually, so long as 'mommy' is the one responsible for it. There's also plenty of other reasons for people to not be on board with Venat's actions which have been outlined extensively throughout this thread and many others.

You're free to hold different opinions. Nobody is suggesting otherwise.

[EaraGrace]

It isn't a strawman. Nobody is obligated to agree with the idea that genocide is good, actually, so long as 'mommy' is the one responsible for it. There's also plenty of other reasons for people to not be on board with Venat's actions which have been outlined extensively throughout this thread and many others.

You're free to hold different opinions. Nobody is suggesting otherwise.

Ah but my opinion would be illogical, my positions wrong and my positive feelings towards Endwalker a product of bad writing and a desire to defend “mommy.”

Theo you pull this motte and bailey every time. You can say “you’re free to hold opinions” all you want.

But when you also say

I daresay a fair few of us are less interested in protecting the virtue of 'mommy' and are more concerned with whether the story being told makes sense and is logical.

You come off insincere.

[EgilTheStressedMage]

While I'm at it: the Scions should have vanished after the fight with Endsinger. Like they would continue to exist for a short time before turning to the player and giving their "victory" poses before disappearing. Then WoL absorbs Endsinger's lingering essence into them. Which is followed by they and the remaining Meteion travelling the universe as, I don't know, enlightened beings or some other SMT nonsense I'm going with here, to create new worlds or something. The game then cuts to a scene about twenty years later where some NPC child we helped is now grown up with the Scions and Minfilia reincarnated as children as they happily run through a forest while the camera pans up to the sun. Roll credits.

[Theodric]

I wouldn't consider it to be 'insincere'. I simply have very little interest in circular arguments and take the approach of suggesting to agree to disagree. The only reason I keep returning to this thread is because it's good to see that others identified similar points and also because it keeps returning to the front page.

It's highly unlikely that anyone involved in these discussions is going to change their minds and I don't think anyone is obligated to, either.

[KageTokage]

At this point, I think I'm mostly afraid that as long as we have a convenient portal to the past, future plots may continue to keep sending us back to the pre-sundering world whenever we need answers to a problem/question that cannot be found in the present. Myths of the Realm already looks highly likely to not be set in the present day.

With a proposed idea like "a battles of values", however, sounds like more preaching and telling me how to feel and think incoming.

The most obvious direction they could go in for a conflict of values would be a clash between the progressive pro-Populares faction of Garleans that wants live in harmony and conformists who want to maintain their grip on Ilsabard at any cost, which I would welcome personally though as someone previously pointed out, might be a little tone-deaf given the current political climate in the real world.

As with Shadowbringers, there wouldn't be much of an argument about which side is right in that regard, but simply seeing how they attempt to work through several decades of hatred and prejudice on both sides to attain a semblance of lasting peace could be interesting.

[EaraGrace]

I wouldn't consider it to be 'insincere'. I simply have very little interest in circular arguments and take the approach of suggesting to agree to disagree. The only reason I keep returning to this thread is because it's good to see that others identified similar points and also because it keeps returning to the front page.

I hear you but I’m sure you can understand why I take umbrage when I see this thread filled with the same take that the writing is bad, these characters are bad, and there needs to be change. Even more so when those defending the writing or Venat are labeled as simps or just wanting to protect crystal mommy, or that they just like bad stories.

I can’t agree to disagree with insults.

It's highly unlikely that anyone involved in these discussions is going to change their minds and I don't think anyone is obligated to, either.

Agreed. The least you can do is stop insulting the other side then.