Sundering stuff established in the Q&A

[PawPaw]

It wouldn’t be the first time it seems either with what he admitted about 5.3

What happened with 5.3? I wasn't active in ffxiv forums or social media at that time so I am totally clueless.

[KizuyaKatogami]

What happened with 5.3? I wasn't active in ffxiv forums or social media at that time so I am totally clueless.

Yoshi P admitted they had a whole other thing planned for 5.3’s ending, presumably Graha dying and it was changed.

[Erendis]

He also adds that maybe Venat worked to ensure the timeline didn't go wack.

So acording to Yoshida she just arbitrarily decided to make sure that we exist and blindly rejected any other posibilities even though she had no idea if we can win or no?

[Adeacia]

When I did the Elpis part of the story my mind was already treating it as a time loop from the start. Nothing we did would actually change anything. Everything we do is what we have always done as there was never a time when we didn't do it. There is, and always has been only one possible outcome, the one we got.

Venat knew what to do because we told her she did it.

[Lyth]

????

We know that we didn't change the timeline because nothing has changed in the present. That's why it's implicit in the question. You can certainly write up alternate scenarios yourself in which the outcome could have theoretically been different i.e. 'What if Kairos didn't activate?', and people have apparently explored these in fan works.

The question itself is about the structure of the time loop. Is it what we would describe as a 'Stable Time Loop', or did the story actually play out twice, with the second iteration of events being identical to the first? The reason why Argos supports this being a 'Stable Time Loop' is because he shouldn't trust you yet if this is your first meeting. If you set that aside, it is possible that on a second pass events either happened to play out the same by coincidence, or did so because Venat ensured that the timelines didn't have any discrepancies before you arrived back in the present.

[EaraGrace]

Or she could just have... Not pointlessly killed herself? You'd think the sundering ability would be pretty useful against a being that's already so aether-thin that it's in danger of dissipation entirely. And if some Unsundered are really so important to the conflict maybe she shouldn't have sundered everyone to begin with?

I think sundering the Aether of a being that is already aetherically thin wouldn’t be the most effective attack, especially when you consider she’s already a hive mind made up of different Meteions.

And I fail to see an alternative that allows for the lessening of the aetheric density of the Ancients and the imprisonment of Zodiark. We can loop back to previous discussions if you want, but the point stands that if you view the Sundering as necessary then there’s not much in alternatives.

As it happens, we don't actually know if WoL even told Venat if Lahabrea and Elidibus were Unsundered. We know WoL told them that Emet formed the Ascians and went into quite a bit of detail about what went down in Amaurot, but even if Lahabrea and Elidibus were mentioned the existence of the sundered Ascians already means that they could have been sundered and raised back to their seats anyway.

Very true that we don’t know exactly what was said. We have the vague image of Lahabrea shown though, which gives some credence to the idea that he was mentioned. And Elidibus was instrumental in getting us to Elpis so there’s reason to think he’s mentioned as well.

Ultimately though, there exists two possibilities, one where we mention at least one other Unsundered and one where only Emet is mentioned.

If it’s the latter, then Venat would indeed not know about Lahabrea or Elidibus and their role in things. But, it’s also true then that she wouldn’t understand the circumstances or events that give rise to the Rejoinings, and thus would have no idea other than that Emet and the Ascians do something to cause Calamities. In that case, and if we assume she’s deliberately trying to allow the Rejoinings to happen, then it would be incredibly counterproductive to raise WoL or grant blessings to people or even help survivors. After all any intervention may split the timeline and cause her plan to fail and she would lack any knowledge of what to do. So in that case I don’t think her actions match with the suggested plan.

If it’s the former however, then we run into the issues I mentioned above.

There are a few things to note in this question. First, obviously, it's about the nature of time travel and why Elpis didn't pull a ShB. And the first response he gives to that is that it's open to interpretation as to whether or not it even did. Next, he says that his interpretation is that this was always one timeline/timeloop, that even if it was possible for a timeline divergence things worked out in such a way that it didn't happen. He also adds that maybe Venat worked to ensure the timeline didn't go wack.

Except he distinguishes between those two as different interpretations. The timeline being the same regardless and Venat working hard to maintain things are separate conceptions of what happened, with him believing the former and not the latter.

So acording to Yoshida she just arbitrarily decided to make sure that we exist and blindly rejected any other posibilities even though she had no idea if we can win or no?

This part of the discussion is over whether that’s the case or not. I suggest you read the full response Yoshi P gave to understand what was said. Here’s a transcript from the Reddit discord.

Q: I don’t really understand why the Warrior of Light messing around in Elpis didn’t create any alternate timelines. What happened?

A: Well, I think the most important thing is that you can come up with your own theories for this one. In my personal interpretation however is that the timelines were always the same. Another interpretation you can have is that maybe Venat worked really hard behind the scenes to ensure the timeline didn’t go awry. Therefore the Warrior of Light was always acting in accordance with this plan of Venat so the timeline that we are aware of didn’t change when we went back to the affected. I personally think that when we went to Mare Lamentorium and we first met Argos and Argos really took to us when we were able to ride it, that's basically the proof that at that point, the timeline is going accordingly. We are adding all these stuff to New Game+ in 6.1 so if you’re interested in this I suggest you replay it and think about these questions when you’re playing it.

[KizuyaKatogami]

The fact yoshi p doesnt even know goes to show how convoluted the plot is ;p

[MikkoAkure]

The fact yoshi p doesnt even know goes to show how convoluted the plot is ;p

Welcome to Final Fantasy.

Still a less convoluted plot than the Fabula Nova Crystallis series.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Welcome to Final Fantasy.

Still a less convoluted plot than the Fabula Nova Crystallis series.

I mean i’ve played every single one. Sure some are somewhat convoluted but i haven’t seen one that praised a genocide supremacist and called them a hero, or one that changed their own rules on time travel. I didn’t find fabula all that convoluted tbh. 13 series wasnt all that convoluted so long as you actually…read which not many people like doing. Unless you mean 15 in which case yeah, that’s the result of poor development, which i guess 14 also suffers from.

[EaraGrace]

The fact yoshi p doesnt even know goes to show how convoluted the plot is ;p

Yknow, I think we both know why he answered that way, and it’s certainly not because he doesn't understand the plot.