the soul of Azem

[Gemina]

Sure, but even if that's the case then it doesn't make our character "dictated by our history as Azem and needing to break free of them to be truly ourself". If inherent traits have transferred from Azem, they're our traits now, and that aspect of Azem is inseparable from who our character is.

Yes, with 'now' being the keyword in your statement. However, these distinctive traits would belong to the soul. Kind of like how a car will retain certain features from owner to owner. All the while the current owner can kind of ascertain some things about their predecessor based on anything that placed a lasting impact on the vehicle. What I am saying is the memories are really the only thing that belong to any incarnation of the soul of Azem (I really wish there was a name to give this version as I dislike having to refer to the seat). This then begs the questions, "What defines an individual?" Their drive? Their memories? Their soul?

I think we see things similarly though. Using the car metaphor, ultimately the past is not as relevant as the present. The current owner of the car is the one in the drivers seat, and it is as simple as that.

[SannaR]

Don't forget that Hermes and Azem aren't the only examples of personality traits being attached to one's soul. Even if we don't really have proof the Dothral are some how able to know whom a Dothral was in the past even if for some reason they were born into a different clan/tribe one of them will end up having an Ah Ha moment and realize they're (enter name here) reborn.

[TheMightyMollusk]

I feel like this is turning into the Ship of Theseus Paradox. How much of Azem's soul can be changed before it's no longer Azem?

[SnowVix]

This should be in the Lore forum, tbh. Not Gen Disc.

[NanaWiloh]

This should be in the Lore forum, tbh. Not Gen Disc.

Dont expect the mods to do their job and move this thread or the other lore thread on the gen. Disc. To the lore section, but do expect them to move any thread in the lore section that is non lore..

[KageTokage]

There's nothing in the story that actually binds us to Azem's identity anyway. It has no tangible impact on anything except Hades' sentimentality and our gaining command of the summoning spell from the crystal.

I was operating under the assumption that there was some greater purpose that Azem was trying to fulfill that led them to avoid taking sides in the Hydaelyn/Zodiark conflict and the burden of that duty is going to end up falling upon us eventually.

It may have not influenced much so far, but that won't necessarily continue to hold true pushing into the future.

[Iscah]

I feel like this is turning into the Ship of Theseus Paradox. How much of Azem's soul can be changed before it's no longer Azem?

On further thought, I think calling it "Azem's soul" is a mistake in the first place. It's the soul that at various time has been Azem and us and a lot of other people. It's equally theirs and ours, regardless of who had it first.

[Yhisa]

Hmmm well spoiler alert so dont read past this section if u havent completed endwalker

U all know we not met the "current" azem right ...venat legit stated in elpis that "azem is currently playing around near a volcano"

Venat already gave her seat away to a new azem and was basically a "retired" azem and the current azem was out adventuring the volcano at the current time, she states this in her dialogue

So even know its just a "seat" we never truely met the current azem yet in elpis

So venat already pass her seat to her student already when we first met her

[KageTokage]

It's...kind of obvious we haven't met the Azem yet since they already established back in Shadowbringers that they and Venat were associates, but distinct people. I honestly kind of doubt we ever will given how vague they've been about them in every bit of mention that's been made so far, and even though Myths of the Realm seems very likely to be set in the past and will probably cover the Azeyma/Azim relation I still doubt they'll be making any in-person appearances.

The main thing that's weirding me out is how they seemed to know we were going to run into Themis/Elidibus to help them out and it makes me question just how much of a long game they might've had in mind, not just Venat.

[Adeacia]

The main thing that's weirding me out is how they seemed to know we were going to run into Themis/Elidibus to help them out and it makes me question just how much of a long game they might've had in mind, not just Venat.

I have an idea about that based on what we currently know. The Azem of the past is literally us. We rejoin with all of our shards over the rest of the game, then when the game fully ends for good, we go back in time to become the Azem that was sundered. Story can't continue after that.

There are a few issues with this that make it not quite fit, but it's an idea.