Would you be ok with a good rival figure for 7.0+?(6.0 spoilers)

[Atmaweapon510]

Rival idea: They have the Echo, but it makes them see things through another person's eyes in the present. Combined with echo vision sharing, like how WoL sees Mikoto's future vision, and the ability to share it at a distance, this gives them some ability to control the flow of information within the story.

In the narrative, this means that the player character can now have more of the meta info that's usually reserved just for the player.

[Lyth]

This is an interesting thought. They already do have a starting framework for an 'alternative' Echo with the Resonant that they haven't fully explored, given that it theoretically allows them to predict and perfectly evade incoming attacks.

From a story perspective, the primary narrative function of the Echo is to help the audience become more sympathetic to characters, by showing us the causes and influences in a flashback that made a them the way that they are. I wonder if the reverse of this, peering into others' futures to see only the bad outcomes (i.e. the consequences without the causes) would make someone more cynical.

As for branching decisions, I think that solutions like NG+ only work if it's just a once off difference that affects a specific cutscene, like Bozja or the Qitari Tribe quests. The problem arises when you want to set up a flag based off of the decision a character picked which influences future events. Do you set up something similar to the 'Reflect Quest Progression' option in The Unending Journey, which allows you to toggle the how the scene plays out with decision effect on or off?

[nighttimebunny]

We already have a rival and anti-hero with a different form of the Echo.

[Cleretic]

We already have a rival and anti-hero with a different form of the Echo.

I agree, Krile should get a top-credited role in 7.0.

[Aneshda]

I agree, Krile should get a top-credited role in 7.0.

No way, I hate her, if I could I would kick her of a Mountain or leave her at the end of the Stars. I don't want even do any of her Quests.

[EaraGrace]

I agree, Krile should get a top-credited role in 7.0.

Justice for Yoshi P forgetting to have the artists include her in the poster ):<

I think any rival would be treading dangerous ground with the player base. You’d need to make them simultaneously believable and extremely powerful to match the WoL, Zenos more or less took several expansions to get to where most didn’t outright hate him and even then it’s still mixed. Its a hard balance.

Maybe when we go exploring we find another lands WoL equivalent, have a few fights, see them in action a few times, and then have the story push us in different directions. I can imagine facing the “hero of Meracydia” would be fun.

[Cleretic]

The notion of someone being mad at Krile is weird to me, she doesn't even register to me as a strong enough character to garner emotional response one way or the other. It's like getting mad at a light breeze.

Justice for Yoshi P forgetting to have the artists include her in the poster ):<

I think any rival would be treading dangerous ground with the player base. You’d need to make them simultaneously believable and extremely powerful to match the WoL, Zenos more or less took several expansions to get to where most didn’t outright hate him and even then it’s still mixed. Its a hard balance.

Maybe when we go exploring we find another lands WoL equivalent, have a few fights, see them in action a few times, and then have the story push us in different directions. I can imagine facing the “hero of Meracydia” would be fun.

I like the idea of meeting and fighting the local 'great hero', but then I remembered that... well, we got that. That's Ran'jit. Even your example framework was essentially that; we fought Ran'jit in Lakeland, Amh Araeng and Eulmore, and saw him in action without fighting in the Crystarium (to a degree), Il Mheg, and Rak'tika. Hell, you even have to do the fights in a similar structure just to make sure it maintains both variety and believability of fighting someone who could beat you; you fight them equally in the first matchup until they pull out something new and interesting to stop the fight, then in the second fight you go up against and beat that new thing only for the to pull out a last-ditch trick when they're on the ropes, and third fight you go up against the whole repertoire. Stormblood Zenos was roughly the same, too.

I'm not even saying that as something against the structure, I think that structure's the best you could make for it in part because it's definitely a structure that'd work for our own jobs (Summoner as an example, first fight is Bahamut stopped by the egis, second fight is the egis stopped by Phoenix, third fight is Bahamut, the egis and Phoenix). I'm just saying that this structure wasn't popular the last two times we got it.

[EaraGrace]

The notion of someone being mad at Krile is weird to me, she doesn't even register to me as a strong enough character to garner emotional response one way or the other. It's like getting mad at a light breeze.



I like the idea of meeting and fighting the local 'great hero', but then I remembered that... well, we got that. That's Ran'jit. Even your example framework was essentially that; we fought Ran'jit in Lakeland, Amh Araeng and Eulmore, and saw him in action without fighting in the Crystarium (to a degree), Il Mheg, and Rak'tika. Hell, you even have to do the fights in a similar structure just to make sure it maintains both variety and believability of fighting someone who could beat you; you fight them equally in the first matchup until they pull out something new and interesting to stop the fight, then in the second fight you go up against and beat that new thing only for the to pull out a last-ditch trick when they're on the ropes, and third fight you go up against the whole repertoire. Stormblood Zenos was roughly the same, too.

I'm not even saying that as something against the structure, I think that structure's the best you could make for it in part because it's definitely a structure that'd work for our own jobs (Summoner as an example, first fight is Bahamut stopped by the egis, second fight is the egis stopped by Phoenix, third fight is Bahamut, the egis and Phoenix). I'm just saying that this structure wasn't popular the last two times we got it.

Never underestimating the dislike that a person on the internet can develop is unfortunately a common lesson . Minfilia was frequently shit on despite being similar to Krile. People have their own reasoning I suppose.

Ranjit was actually exactly who I was thinking of. The issue with him (and Zenos) I think has to do with the fact that they were planned to be temporary at the start (with Zenos becoming more important once the road to SHB and EW became clear). Any rival character I think would need to be planned for multiple expansions and designed accordingly. Ranjit worked for the most part right up until the final fight in Eulmore, where they just kind of threw him to the side in favor of Vauthry. I think if you have that rival stick as a presence in the story you could avoid the issues that Zenos and Ranjit had.

[KageTokage]

I find it a little odd how we never seem to run into any new heroes who can hold a candle to us or even the Scions.

The leaders of the Eorzean Alliance's city states and their close associates like Yugiri, Pipin, and Lyse are implied be as competent as the latter, but others like people of the First and Thavnair seem to have no such figures to rally behind who can routinely be around to aid them as both the Exarch and Vrtra were implied to be more of a behind the scenes presence and it's made clear that no one in their respective armies is even close to as competent.

[Cleretic]

I find it a little odd how we never seem to run into any new heroes who can hold a candle to us or even the Scions.

The leaders of the Eorzean Alliance's city states and their close associates like Yugiri, Pipin, and Lyse are implied be as competent as the latter, but others like people of the First and Thavnair seem to have no such figures to rally behind who can routinely be around to aid them as both the Exarch and Vrtra were implied to be more of a behind the scenes presence and it's made clear that no one in their respective armies is even close to as competent.

...that's Ran'jit again. The hero of his people, if not by our external view. And Captain Lyna, if we want to count her.