Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Nethereal]

The particulars of how we include those downtime abilities don't especially matter beyond their being, on the whole, diverse, cohesive, and to some degree fitting for their kits.

At present, the one-button spam of healer downtime gives two further issues beyond its obvious monotony: they have no particular fit to/with their job surrounding kits and those tools they have no distinction from those of other healer kits. They all play equally --(and) homogeneously-- independently and dully.

"Hey but at least sage is blue instead of green and they don't have energy drain."
- Someone who designed sage.

[ASkellington]

The particulars of how we include those downtime abilities don't especially matter beyond their being, on the whole, diverse, cohesive, and to some degree fitting for their kits.

At present, the one-button spam of healer downtime gives two further issues beyond its obvious monotony: they have no particular fit to/with their job surrounding kits and those tools they have no distinction from those of other healer kits. They all play equally --(and) homogeneously-- independently and dully.

WHM I think should actually have a bit of a rotation. I'll be the first to say it'd be rather awkward with the lilies still being GCD, but I do think it could work. Misery should become oGCD and their rotation should help to generate it and the lilies. Obviously, the lily skills would grant blood lily faster.

For SGE... awkward, but make Toxicon oGCD as well, and have it be a reward for SGE to use their GCD shields. And maybe something else to add into that same idea. Drawing a blank there.

I know SCH was the dot healer, but AST is time based and it would fit them as well. Another detonate ability like ES but strictly for damage could be an alternative. And of course obligatory give back interesting cards.

SCH... Eh screw it. Even if AST got another dot or two they may as well get back Miasma and Bane since SMN no longer has it.

SGE and WHM I gave ideas to reward them with damage for healing (building to Misery/Toxicon) as clunky as I tried to explain it. Not sure how AST and SCH could do it, but that's the idea.

[Rhysati]

Another idea I just had: Make SGE's second combo ability a rapid-click charge, where the more clicks you do the more pew-pews you get. That would be an easy one-button fix and keep players very engaged.

Why do you hate SGE players? I really don't want to get carpal tunnel spamming buttons more than I already have to.

[SeverianLyonesse]

Obvious concerns for ping aside, any sort of variation like this would be much appreciated.

To be clear, I don't consider 1-2-3 combos as offering enough to warrant their button-cost, but less rigid/thoughtless means of offering "[woven] mini-bursts" would be a huge boon for healer gameplay.

My thoughts on the PING: healer damage should be a bonus, not mandatory. So they can be more risky with ping without having it ruin their utility like say MCH.

Why do you hate SGE players? I really don't want to get carpal tunnel spamming buttons more than I already have to.

I'm quickly approaching sage main lol. I don't feel like I have anything close to carpal tunnel atm.

Though maybe some sort of middle ground could be had, like Surpanakha/Phantom Flurry.

[IDontPetLalas]

My thoughts on the PING: healer damage should be a bonus, not mandatory. So they can be more risky with ping without having it ruin their utility like say MCH.



I'm quickly approaching sage main lol. I don't feel like I have anything close to carpal tunnel atm.

Though maybe some sort of middle ground could be had, like Surpanakha/Phantom Flurry.

If you're a sage main, then you should appreciate that sages are supposed to heal by doing damage, so damage is not a bonus for sages. So, if we are already aware that the current deign has caused various jobs to have issues due to ping, I'd prefer ideally -that it would either be fixed first (hah- how long have machinists been waiting?) or maybe there's a slightly different way of doing it, maybe even a charge? Just a thought.

[24spencer]

Which goes both ways.

If someone is looking for proof, just find a thread about "in from the cold".

Middle ground, does it exist?

I'm sorry but I think this is a pretty unfair comparison given that they nerfed easy and very easy versions of in from the cold *almost immediately* whereas the current issues with healer design have been documented and present since the first day of shadowbringers easily but not addressed in any meaningful way

[Eriane_Elis]

This game has a lot of challenges.

1. Try to play PotD by yourself, or with a friend. You can start with 4 players or just do it with just yourself or with a friend. It's not easy.

2. You can try to solo or duo / trio unsync content that shouldn't be doable. Some content is impossible due to the mechanics putting you into a bind until you wipe. But even Kefka savage can be cleared with just 3 players. I've done it.

3. You could play trials and change the settings around so it can be very challenging. Try it out, you'll be surprised!

4. Ultimate yes, is difficult and challenging. So much so that it can probably take 2 months to clear it with a static given nobody gives up. (2 months is reasonable if there are a few attempts here and there)

5. Play with random players

6. Make your own rules to the game such as not being allowed to get hit once by anything other than mandatory mechanics.

7. Jumping puzzles

8. Memorizing Praetorium monologues in every language

9. Blind runs on all future content. This means you can't go on YT to find guides on anything

10. Getting the bird minion (I still don't believe this even drops)

There you go, 10 challenging things you can do in this game and there's more things to do. Be creative and when you're tired, try playing as a healer and see how underappreciated you are when you save your party from wipe due to other players being stupid and don't get a com. Being a healer is a tough job, not just gameplay wise but also emotionally when people hate you for their mistakes.

[SeverianLyonesse]

If you're a sage main, then you should appreciate that sages are supposed to heal by doing damage, so damage is not a bonus for sages. So, if we are already aware that the current deign has caused various jobs to have issues due to ping, I'd prefer ideally -that it would either be fixed first (hah- how long have machinists been waiting?) or maybe there's a slightly different way of doing it, maybe even a charge? Just a thought.

I guess I should have clarified: healer DPS should *generally* be designed as a bonus. And I admit that is an ideal applied to all healers, which to some extent conflicts with Sage's current design. Either way, I think Sage is still missing the design mark *because* it is heavily encouraged to attack, and ends up just spamming dosis a hundred times to function as intended. Maybe Sage needs to make damage more optional but engaging, or maybe Sage could be the more consistent damage exception to my opinion, but either way it needs a more engaging DPS kit.

[SeverianLyonesse]

This game has a lot of challenges.

1. Try to play PotD by yourself, or with a friend. You can start with 4 players or just do it with just yourself or with a friend. It's not easy.

2. You can try to solo or duo / trio unsync content that shouldn't be doable. Some content is impossible due to the mechanics putting you into a bind until you wipe. But even Kefka savage can be cleared with just 3 players. I've done it.

3. You could play trials and change the settings around so it can be very challenging. Try it out, you'll be surprised!

4. Ultimate yes, is difficult and challenging. So much so that it can probably take 2 months to clear it with a static given nobody gives up. (2 months is reasonable if there are a few attempts here and there)

5. Play with random players

6. Make your own rules to the game such as not being allowed to get hit once by anything other than mandatory mechanics.

7. Jumping puzzles

8. Memorizing Praetorium monologues in every language

9. Blind runs on all future content. This means you can't go on YT to find guides on anything

10. Getting the bird minion (I still don't believe this even drops)

There you go, 10 challenging things you can do in this game and there's more things to do. Be creative and when you're tired, try playing as a healer and see how underappreciated you are when you save your party from wipe due to other players being stupid and don't get a com. Being a healer is a tough job, not just gameplay wise but also emotionally when people hate you for their mistakes.

I should not have to make up my own rules to feel engaged by the bulk of XIV's core content. If I have to set arbitrary limitations for myself, then something about the design is lacking.

And in what screwed up world would anyone consider the social abuse that accompanies a job to be a positive substitute for challenge?

[Eriane_Elis]

I should not have to make up my own rules to feel engaged by the bulk of XIV's core content. If I have to set arbitrary limitations for myself, then something about the design is lacking.

And in what screwed up world would anyone consider the social abuse that accompanies a job to be a positive substitute for challenge?

It's called a joke. Also it's a role playing game, role playing. Yes, you can make your own rules to things and that's why certain end-game things exist like RP cafe etc...