Physical Damage Jobs - Themes

[Easayia]

I think Bards one of the more unique jobs in the game half archer half buffer with music reminds me of Ebon song from arche age in a lot of ways. Should it be called a Bard probably not but oh well....
By far my favorite job in the game with a rotation that keeps things interesting.

I hate playing casters so I would never want caster bard.

[SeverianLyonesse]

Is just that the devs seem to be attracted to the idea of merging 2 different themes in some jobs, which of course, lead to divisive opinions (especially on the forums).

There are people who wants MCH to be more gadget focused... others do want it to be more gun focused. I'd rather have the former, to honor the actual "Machinist" name of the job, you know... handling machines. And it's somewhat like that now. The guns are only used in rotational filler abilities 1-2-3 or the Scattergun aoe. What the job misses atm has nothing to do with the theme, as its mechanics have little to no depth.

Same dilemma with BRD songs versus bows or WHM light aspected magic versus elemental magic.

I love this approach to job design. It makes for more well-rounded, faceted, and unique jobs. Not to mention gives FF XIV more identity than most MMOs/RPGs which just rotely tick down DnD job archetypes.

If people want basic, tired low-magic job fantasies, WoW is still doing just fine. Lost Ark is now available, too. Maybe look into Elden Ring or Elder Scrolls. If archetypal berserker, ranger, and spellblade cliches are your jam, there is a multitude of games out there that can give you that experience. Final Fantasy is not and really has never been a low-fantasy franchise, and that definitely remains true for FFXIV.

[dinnertime]

I don't know what you guys are looking at, but FFXIV is not unique with job themes at all. Final Fantasy in general uses DnD job archetypes... Lol. Not that this is an issue. It's the standard.

In the case of FFXIV Bard, people are upset because it's not like the standard Final Fantasy Bard they loved and remembered. Understandable because Bards and Archers are two extremely different concepts. Honestly FFXIV's Bard does a terrible job merging both concepts because it's imbalanced. Like I said, it's more of an Archer than it is a Bard.

[SeverianLyonesse]

I don't know what you guys are looking at, but FFXIV is not unique with job themes at all. Final Fantasy in general uses DnD job archetypes... Lol. Not that this is an issue. It's the standard.

In the case of FFXIV Bard, people are upset because it's not like the standard Final Fantasy Bard they loved and remembered. Understandable because Bards and Archers are two extremely different concepts. Honestly FFXIV's Bard does a terrible job merging both concepts because it's imbalanced. Like I said, it's more of an Archer than it is a Bard.

You say they aren't unique, and in the same message you acknowledge that it's not the standard "Final Fantasy Bard" (based on DnD job archetypes) because it is melded with archer.

That is a unique take on both jobs. The concept of a harp-bow is a unique take on both jobs.

And also, yet again, I will reiterate that both jobs in isolation are boring AF, and that is why they were combined. Archer has very little variety, and Bard has very little agency. The two flavors work together and save each other from mediocrity. And if not Archer/Bard, they would have had to be combined with *some* other concept to have any interesting/dynamic identity in a high-fantasy action-ish RPG. This isn't Skyrim. This isn't Dark Souls. If you want a "pure" archer, go play your boring, cream-of-wheat low-fantasy jobs in those games. It just isn't happening in XIV, and if you're looking at the past ten years of design and thinking otherwise, your powers of self-delusion are exceptional.

[dinnertime]

You say they aren't unique, and in the same message you acknowledge that it's not the standard "Final Fantasy Bard" (based on DnD job archetypes) because it is melded with archer.

That is a unique take on both jobs. The concept of a harp-bow is a unique take on both jobs.

And also, yet again, I will reiterate that both jobs in isolation are boring AF, and that is why they were combined. Archer has very little variety, and Bard has very little agency. The two flavors work together and save each other from mediocrity. And if not Archer/Bard, they would have had to be combined with *some* other concept to have any interesting/dynamic identity in a high-fantasy action-ish RPG. This isn't Skyrim. This isn't Dark Souls. If you want a "pure" archer, go play your boring, cream-of-wheat low-fantasy jobs in those games. It just isn't happening in XIV, and if you're looking at the past ten years of design and thinking otherwise, your powers of self-delusion are exceptional.

I literally implied on the same post, and said on a previous post that Bard is one of the unique ones they have. Does it mean it's good though?

And honestly I beg to differ about how they work together when both ideas do not even balance each other. It's why there's a rift between Bard players who want a real Bard, and Bard players who were disappointed that it didn't evolve more into Archery like the class they started with.

It's really funny you ignored my entire point anyway about Final Fantasy having these "boring, cream-of-wheat low-fantasy" Jobs. Paladin, Warrior, Monk, Black Mage, White Mage and many more fall under the typical cookie-cutter RPG class stereotypes. They're not unique and I wouldn't pretend they're not. Again, it's not a bad thing but if someone is being self-delusional, it's honestly you.

[Jirah]

MCH could feel more machinist-like if instead of summoning Queen and forgetting, you could hop into the mech and pilot it, kinda like how Reaper.

You mean word for word exactly like reaper. Idk if it’s the same person saying this “we should stop being a machinist and start being a mech pilot” idea floating around which is as bad as the whole “let MCH have a res for no logical reason” but I’ve seen the request one too many times to be annoyed by it now.

Yes the turrets are currently the worst incantation we have ever had in the games history, no having some mech out of blue won’t solve this.

[Lorim]

Agree with all the OP’s points about Bard.

Unfortunately the developers and vast majority of the Bard community do not.

We will never see a full-on FF Bard job with a support oriented job with harp as their main weapon in all its glory.

We will never see a full-on Archer job that focuses solely on the laser beam archery stuff that dominates Bard’s gameplay.

I absolutely think they should be split so the identity of both jobs squished into this hybrid can be fully realised and not halved to make space for the fact you’re playing two different jobs at once. But, tragically, it won’t ever happen. I mean why would they when Bard is so massively popular

Sorry But they already did a full support Bard with it's "main weapon" being music instrument in FF11 (But the base class was still archer).....And, seriously, FFXIV Bard is 100000000000000000000000000000 times better.

Because, with FFXI bard, the only things you did for an entire fight was : Running and hitting two Macro Buttons....

Yup.... Running to the front and hitting Macro for Buffing Melee Characters (Tank and DPS), then running to the back and Hitting Macro for Buffing Ranged/Magical Chacters (DPS and Healer).... but when you finished Buffing the Back you must run back to the front for Buffing melee because their buffs will soon run out.... then you must run back to the back because Ranged/Magical characters will have their buffs run out... Rinse and repeat for the entire fight

When i was playing Bard on FFXI; i was never hearing the battle music (it's not like on FFXIV, for hearing Battle music your characters itself must be considered in battle....)

So, no, no and no..... Never again a full Support Bard made in SQNEX

[dinnertime]

[snip]

FFXI and FFXIV are two different games.

I highly doubt if they went with the musical instrument weapon as their direction, it'd be "running and hitting two macros" especially when there's no pure support class in this game and every role deals damage.