Please grow the MMO part of the game. End game is lousy.

[nighttimebunny]

And what does the NA playerbase want? To me, it seems they want RP features, looking at PF on aether lol.

I thought people got sick of wow being a mindless grind fest, don't want xivs endgame turning into that.

People trying to turn FFXIV into WoW. It's kind of sad.

[Shurrikhan]

And what does the NA playerbase want? To me, it seems they want RP features...

People trying to turn FFXIV into WoW. It's kind of sad.

Because "RP features" are so antithetical to XIV?

And if we're to talk grind... we already lead plentifully in that regard, between tomestones, relics, and massively slow-to-reach achievements.

[Ixon]

A practice can be both (A) resource-intensive to the point of fairly hard limits and (B) predatory.

They decided to build houses in this resource-intensive way, after all, and then quickly went back on their promise never to require sustained subscriptions just to keep said houses.

Ah yes, the company that suspended auto-demolition on multiple occasions due to server congestion or a pandemic is truly "predatory". I for one think it's a fantastic idea for people who haven't logged on in months to occupy a house that someone who actively plays could reside in. True. True. The fact that they even added houses to what a trash heap 2.0 framework was isn't astounding at all. It's not like they have been putting in sub-optimal additions to a busted framework just cause players asked for it since 2.0 or anything close to that. I would like a source on "then quickly went back on their promise never to require sustained subscriptions just to keep said houses."

Does the housing system need rework, yes. Could they implement it better, yes. Is it "predatory" - "seeking to exploit or oppress others"? Highly doubtful. The entire lifespan of the game has been an adventure of "add a thing, issues with the thing, patch the thing until we can rework the thing". Of course the original housing is faulty, it was added in 2013? Almost nothing in the game from 2013 still exists, housing is just a bigger item to handle.

Because "RP features" are so antithetical to XIV?

And if we're to talk grind... we already lead plentifully in that regard, between tomestones, relics, and massively slow-to-reach achievements.

You can cap current weekly tomestones in like 4 hours. The Relic is SUPPOSED to be a grind, literally designed that way. Not to mention modern relics aren't nearly as bad as ARR relics. "massively slow-to-reach achievements" This is an MMO right? First of all, there is not a "massive" amount, 2nd even if there was, oh no, SE added a goal to reach while I have been playing this game for years. Like what even is there? Hunts? FL wins? Commendations? Sure some might take a while if you are brand new, but most you just end up getting passively by just playing the game.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Ah yes, the company that suspended auto-demolition on multiple occasions due to server congestion or a pandemic is truly "predatory". I for one think it's a fantastic idea for people who haven't logged on in months to occupy a house that someone who actively plays could reside in. True. True. The fact that they even added houses to what a trash heap 2.0 framework was isn't astounding at all. It's not like they have been putting in sub-optimal additions to a busted framework just cause players asked for it since 2.0 or anything close to that. I would like a source on "then quickly went back on their promise never to require sustained subscriptions just to keep said houses."

Does the housing system need rework, yes. Could they implement it better, yes. Is it "predatory" - "seeking to exploit or oppress others"? Highly doubtful. The entire lifespan of the game has been an adventure of "add a thing, issues with the thing, patch the thing until we can rework the thing". Of course the original housing is faulty, it was added in 2013? Almost nothing in the game from 2013 still exists, housing is just a bigger item to handle.



You can cap current weekly tomestones in like 4 hours. The Relic is SUPPOSED to be a grind, literally designed that way. Not to mention modern relics aren't nearly as bad as ARR relics. "massively slow-to-reach achievements" This is an MMO right? First of all, there is not a "massive" amount, 2nd even if there was, oh no, SE added a goal to reach while I have been playing this game for years. Like what even is there? Hunts? FL wins? Commendations? Sure some might take a while if you are brand new, but most you just end up getting passively by just playing the game.

Considering enough people have been arguing against the system for this many years i’m inclined to believe it’s pretty predatory. If not predatory then at the least just…shows how incredibly irresponsible the company is. Either way this discussion is getting derailed. The whole point is asking for more and diverse endgame, which this game definitely could use. Unfortunately though i don’t see it happening considering where they’ve decided to now pour time and resources…making the game less of an mmo and more of a single player visual novel sadly.

[Ixon]

Considering enough people have been arguing against the system for this many years i’m inclined to believe it’s pretty predatory. If not predatory then at the least just…shows how incredibly irresponsible the company is. Either way this discussion is getting derailed. The whole point is asking for more and diverse endgame, which this game definitely could use. Unfortunately though i don’t see it happening considering where they’ve decided to now pour time and resources…making the game less of an mmo and more of a single player visual novel sadly.

I think it's just not your taste. This game has had the almost same exact structure for a looong time. I am perfectly content with my 3 days a week raids with my static, and pushing more when we feel like it. I like that I can take a days off and not log on and not miss a thing. I'll be happy when the Ultimates drop to tie me over till the next EX to tie me over till PVP to tie me over till new Heaven on High to tie me over to the next raid tier and repeat. YoshiP himself has even stated that this is not an 24/7/365 game, and when you feel bored they want to play something else and come back when you want to.

[Misplaced_Marbles]

As I've always said: if multiplayer "dies" in an MMO just because we have a choice of playing with bots, then the multiplayer part was just a facade. Let them pull away the veneer to show the joke that MMOs are.

I'm sure people who like interacting with others have already made a circle of friends to play with and/or joined a free company, and they can still play with them. Those who don't and won't do that won't do that no matter how far detached from reality the devs are who believe they will if they strongarm it enough (I mean, reaching this epiphany took them only a decade! Sheesh). The former lose nothing, the latter gain a more enjoyable game.

Also, it can only be considered a "visual novel" if they continue to fail at making the combat engaging.

[KizuyaKatogami]

As I've always said: if multiplayer "dies" in an MMO just because we have a choice of playing with bots, then the multiplayer part was just a facade. Let them pull away the veneer to show the joke that MMOs are.

I'm sure people who like interacting with others have already made a circle of friends to play with and/or joined a free company, and they can still play with them. Those who don't and won't do that won't do that no matter how far detached from reality the devs are who believe they will if they strongarm it enough (I mean, reaching this epiphany took them only a decade! Sheesh). The former lose nothing, the latter gain a more enjoyable game.

Also, it can only be considered a "visual novel" if they continue to fail at making the combat engaging.

Which is exactly what has happened. Look at how they’re treating healers and how they continue to gut and simplify jobs each expansion.

[Shurrikhan]

I think it's just not your taste.

Isn't it precisely when there's nothing that quite clicks sufficiently (is to one's taste) that people ask for diversity in choices?

Imagine if XIV had never extended beyond dungeon, raids (of the slightly more classic, trash-filled variety), trials. Do we just go and tell anyone who wants open world content relevant beyond MSQ pathways, FATE grinds for the brief period a zone is relevant for leveling, and its few gathering node loops per zone to just go play something else rather than expanding the game itself?

[Garnix]

They added the bicolor gemstones so that FATE stay relevant on the longer term. (didn't seem to work, even with the ridiculous farm needed for the new mount/wings, which nobody seems to be bothered with, because "meh FATE farming meh")
Most people are not bothered with fishing either, which is a really nice and chill way to spend time in the world IMO.
Treasure hunts were fun addition to the open world, and still are.
Hunts as well (though I feel like they should reward the daily hunts a bit more because after leveling I usually don't do them anymore, but they exist...).
Also, this is an aspect of the game that got "cheesed" by the community. You have like a handful of actual hunters per server and then everybody else just wait for an alarm on discord/LS. You can go help spawning or finding hunts monsters if you really want to participate in end game open world content... Hunts are the most MMO thing they ever put in the open world. But yet most people do not care about the spawning process which was designed as a collective effort.

What do people want in the open world is my question?
IMO what would be nice is to add some FATEs (especially the big boss FATEs) and S ranks in patches. But as I said, the majority of the community handles that with a simple discord chat.
And maybe find a way to add some duels to encourage people to actively participate in FATEs in the same way they encourage fate farming in Bozja. But again, that is a thing that people would do once for the reward and never bother again later.

Asking for more open world content is totally fair. I would probably love it too.
But people just like the convenience of the DF/PF/Discord alarms way too much.

[DPZ2]

Which is exactly what has happened. Look at how they’re treating healers and how they continue to gut and simplify jobs each expansion.

You're upset that SE has chosen not to change your particular playstyles as much as you think is needed, not that they're adding Trusts to the main story line dungeon instances. The need to describe this game (or any game with a battle system, really) as a 'visual novel' is pretty telling.

If you truly believe this game is becoming a 'visual novel', then you must have really disliked World of Warcraft/Star Wars: The Old Republic/Rift/Guild Wars 2/ArcheAge/Blade and Soul (those are the icons I can see on my desktop at the moment, there are a number of others out there as well), since one can solo-level (i.e. experience the non-raid-oriented story lines) in those particular games without ever engaging with another person in-game. It's not optimal, and some of the fun you can have is definitely tied to group interactions (guilds/FCs/Parties). But you can do it.

I play visual novels. The dynamics are quite different. The end-game is extremely different. There is no "rapport" system in this game. You can't Romance any of the Scions. You can RP to your hearts content, but it isn't part of the base game.

The reason these games are classified as MMORPGs is the same reason FFXIV is an MMORPG. There are instances where players can group up; there are persistent, distinct worlds to play on, you can interact with other players to your hearts content. Or not.