Sundering stuff established in the Q&A

[thegreatonemal]

Nobody is obligated to like Venat nor do they need to agree with or approve of her actions.

Did I say that? No. You don't have to like her. Keep your reasons for not liking her to the story in question and not your speculations on what ifs and just making stuff up. A lot of the dislike seems to come from that she didn't give her people a chance, which is a lie, they were given a chance and a choice and they choose to not deal with the problem and its aftermath and simply hide behind Zodiark.

[Absimiliard]

If by given a chance you mean kept completely in the dark and in no way given anything resembling a proper opportunity to fight back against their fate.

What even is the point in this debate anymore? Venat, the Ancients, and later the Ascians were all flawed beings - human, in other words. It's fine for them to be shades of grey instead of black or white. Each demographic had their reasons for doing what they did, whether they be ignorance, self-righteousness, despair, or whatever else you want to ascribe.

The convocation was not divided about it.

And this is just straight up misinformation. The game says outright there was a significant amount of debate over their plan.

[KizuyaKatogami]

The convocation was not divided about it. the only person that disagreed and left before they even went through with the summoning was Azem. After he was summoned they were all on board and the only people that disagreed were Venat's faction. The debates about it all caused Elidibus to drag himself out of Zoidark to mediate. Which failed because one side has members who are tempered and would never ever agree to anything that wasn't feeding Zodiark more souls.

Like I said, lying and twisting yourself into knots. She gave them a chance, all the debates about doing more sacrifices was that chance.
What praise is she getting? Half the expansion was people not feeling like they could trust her because she was a primal. The other half was questioning why she wanted us to run and if that was her only option from the very start. Once we have the full picture she herself admits that while this was her only real option since she wants the world to keep on living she is painfully aware of all the death and misery shes caused but feels its worth it because mankind is able to stand up and fight for a chance to live rather than the 100% chance of death if she did nothing.

Emet doesn't get the benefit because as we've found out his way would have killed us all. He himself admits that.

Someone already linked you sources proving that the convocation itself was divided. I don’t know how else to explain it to you.

[Absimiliard]

Not to mention the whole tempering thing also being torpedoed. Zodiark apparently didn't have much ability to temper given that it didn't seem to interfere with their free will. As previously stated; we can see from Emet-Selch, who repeatedly tried to walk away from the plan and just live, how little the tempering actually meant.

[Rokke]

The convocation members were tempered. Emet tells us so in SHB, its reaffirmed in the cutscene/quest where we pick up their constellation crystals off the floor in 5.3 with one member musing that they can feel themselves being warped post summoning, and the the Loporrits in the various non ENG dialog state that anything as strong as Zodiark will inherently effect their summoners. We do not know the extent of their tempering past the occasional "free lord zodiark, he is our god!!!" because the lot of them are written fairly inconsistently.

The convocation agreed collectively that Zodiark was the best course of action, though in Emet's tales from story, he emphasizes they were saddened that thats what it came down to. In Hyth's dmv scene he says that the Amaurotine survivors were split on weather or not the plan to continue sacrifices was worth it after the 2nd sacrifice and that it was the first time in their people's history that they could not come to a unanimous decision. Thats when/why Zodiark made Elidibus 2.0 - to try to get everyone to agree that Zodiark was the correct choice.

[Absimiliard]

We now understand the tempering process far better than we used to. Is the altering of a soul such that its elemental bias becomes the same as the tempering primal's. While this does grant the individual an affinity for magic of the appropriate element, it also erodes their sense of self and makes them ludicrously devoted to serving their primal's will. Tempered Ancients, however, continue to display their prior personality quirks and are perfectly willing to pursue their own ideals independent of what may most benefit Zodiark, as shown in the game. We can only speculate as to why, but I'd wager it has something to do with the ridiculous amount of aether they held.

Furthermore, the Convocation was not in fact in unanimous agreement initially. In-game text is very clear on this matter. It was not just your average Amaurotine in disagreement. The Convocation did ultimately come to a decision in the affirmative, but they did not arrive at that point without significant debate.

[thegreatonemal]

We now understand the tempering process far better than we used to. Is the altering of a soul such that its elemental bias becomes the same as the tempering primal's. While this does grant the individual an affinity for magic of the appropriate element, it also erodes their sense of self and makes them ludicrously devoted to serving their primal's will. Tempered Ancients, however, continue to display their prior personality quirks and are perfectly willing to pursue their own ideals independent of what may most benefit Zodiark, as shown in the game. We can only speculate as to why, but I'd wager it has something to do with the ridiculous amount of aether they held.

Furthermore, the Convocation was not in fact in unanimous agreement initially. In-game text is very clear on this matter. It was not just your average Amaurotine in disagreement. The Convocation did ultimately come to a decision in the affirmative, but they did not arrive at that point without significant debate.

Tempering bends your thoughts to what the primal wants it does not always turn you into a mindless person who can only mutter their god's name. The Heaveanward, the Serpent Revaers, Cid's father, the twins grandfather, Nael and the tempered Ala Mhigan soldiers from 4.1 are all examples of this. The conovation was for the sacrifices it was everyone else who debated and it was these fierce debates that led Elidibus to draw himself out to mediate.

[SpectrePhantasia]

The Zodiark tempering point is honestly so inconsistent in how it is explained and shown that I genuinely choose to just not pay it any further mind beyond it simply aligning the person more towards darkness and thus giving them their dark powers. Emet-selch and Elidibus both at times act in ways that do not serve to further Zodiark's will. They appear more high-functioning and in control of themselves and their decisions than any other tempered person we've seen. Their devotion is far more to their loved ones than Zodiark himself.

I'd previously held a theory that primals of greater power can make their tempering more subtle, as Bahamut's thralls in Midas and Louisoix are both more coherent compared to the tempered of lesser primals such as Ifrit or Lakshmi, but even they exude a stiltedness that makes them shells of their former selves.

Lahabrea is the only one who could fit this bill, but you could just as easily attribute him losing his mind to a result of the tragedy he bore witness to.

To top it all off, when we see Emet-selch again in Ultima Thule, at a point where his soul would have doubtlessly been cleansed from this tempering, he does not make a single mention of regret or ill-judgement on account of it in his decisions. In fact, he only doubles down that his values are unshakable. I really don't think Zodiark's tempering had much of anything to do with this.

[KizuyaKatogami]

The Zodiark tempering point is honestly so inconsistent in how it is explained and shown that I genuinely choose to just not pay it any further mind beyond it simply aligning the person more towards darkness and thus giving them their dark powers. Emet-selch and Elidibus both at times act in ways that do not serve to further Zodiark's will. They appear more high-functioning and in control of themselves and their decisions than any other tempered person we've seen. Their devotion is far more to their loved ones than Zodiark himself.

I'd previously held a theory that primals of greater power can make their tempering more subtle, as Bahamut's thralls in Midas and Louisoix are both more coherent compared to the tempered of lesser primals such as Ifrit or Lakshmi, but even they exude a stiltedness that makes them shells of their former selves.

Lahabrea is the only one who could fit this bill, but you could just as easily attribute him losing his mind to a result of the tragedy he bore witness to.

To top it all off, when we see Emet-selch again in Ultima Thule, at a point where his soul would have doubtlessly been cleansed from this tempering, he does not make a single mention of regret or ill-judgement on account of it in his decisions. In fact, he only doubles down that his values are unshakable. I really don't think Zodiark's tempering had much of anything to do with this.

In regards to your theory, i’m not sure if it’s the answer you seek but there was an interview with yoshi done a bit before endwalker where he stated a primal can choose how tempered they want their followers to be. He used Thordan as an example in that he didn’t make the knights mindless zombies and instead let them have will i believe.

[SpectrePhantasia]

In regards to your theory, i’m not sure if it’s the answer you seek but there was an interview with yoshi done a bit before endwalker where he stated a primal can choose how tempered they want their followers to be. He used Thordan as an example in that he didn’t make the knights mindless zombies and instead let them have will i believe.

Ah, so it's a conscious choice? That's very interesting. I do wonder in that case why lesser primals tend to make their tempered more mindless zombies, as it seems you can only benefit by having the devotion still clearly present in a more cognizant mind. Definitely something to consider, but it further drives home the point that Zodiark's tempering couldn't have really had much of any relevance, because he quite literally has no will of his own, and certainly not the insight to make such a decision in tempering his summoners.