Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[IttyBitty]

(Most) healers have long accepted that healing requirements and fight design will not change. That is fine. That is perfectly okay.

What is not okay is the fact we have nothing to do when we are not healing. What is not okay is so many classes getting so much self/party healing that it is negating the little healers have to do. What is not okay is fights being tuned so loosely that they can be done without any healers whatsoever (normal raid, EX fights, certain floors of savage, all while relevant content).

It's entirely possible to carve out a space that is enjoyable for healer mains within those parameters without changing the skill floor whatsoever. The devs just refuse to even try. Healing is the only role that gets less enjoyable the more capable and geared your team mates are. It's ridiculous. If healers are just meant to suck it up and only derive enjoyment from the first 1-2 weeks of savage prog or attempting ultimate if you can find a group willing (it's hard enough getting your static to show up on time for Savage) then there's really no reason for them to exist at all because that's a really shitty ratio of enjoyment to time over the course of an expansion.

If you find all the content boring except Ultimates then why are you playing the game? If you think it is boring because it's not tryhard enough then quit. It's a Final Fantasy game not a FromSoftware game. Final Fantasy has never been a difficult game series or about difficulty.

Garbage argument. Content is plenty enjoyable on any other role. Healers get bored because their gameplay consists largely of pressing a single button over and over again. It isn't a "make everything harder" post.

[KizuyaKatogami]

If you find all the content boring except Ultimates then why are you playing the game? If you think it is boring because it's not tryhard enough then quit. It's a Final Fantasy game not a FromSoftware game. Final Fantasy has never been a difficult game series or about difficulty.

It’s not about difficulty. It’s about engagement for the last time. There is nothing engaging no matter whether you’re doing ultimate or sastasha about spamming 1 button 90% of a fight. Let’s change all dps and tank rotations to one button and see what kind of reactions that gets. Surely it won’t be many positive ones hm?

[Atelier-Bagur]

Yes and just like with Savage or EX for that reason, after you've done it multiple times it becomes auto pilot and you'll have the same issue once again. Not to mention they just cut an entire ultimate and heavily delayed it (No stop using covid as an excuse for everything).

This is just pure arrogance in my opinion.

Now I wait for all the whiteknights coming with pitchforks and trow me on the bonfire.

I think I rather see this game crash and burn under the weight of its own success and ineptitude at this point. So much for that reputation of this game's devs listening to player feedback. Clearly nobody in the dev team department are listening or are just cherry picking certain feedback while the majority of the playerbase further barks louder over long overdue changes. They are repeating the same mistake that caused 1.0 to be a colossal failure.

.....is what I would like to say to join this hate parade against the devs. I think its just as simple as that healing complexity hasnt been as big of an issue as most people think it is. Unless the majority of the playerbase start to rally harder to demand these changes, the devs wont be considering in adjusting roles. Or maybe they have been thinking about it, idk.

[aveyond-dreams]

If you find all the content boring except Ultimates then why are you playing the game? If you think it is boring because it's not tryhard enough then quit. It's a Final Fantasy game not a FromSoftware game. Final Fantasy has never been a difficult game series or about difficulty.

No one is asking for Elden Ring difficulty around here. We're just fed up with having so little in the way of "fun" buttons.

[localareanetwork]

as if ultimates were really any different.


check a log–any log– from ANY ultimate. even gray logs have each healer casting their dps spell like 140 times at the very least.


the only ultimate that really kind of tests healers is TEA, and thats only for the first 5 minutes of the fight. the other two ultimates are potency and gear crept to hell and back and dont present much challenge anymore. what then? wait for dragonsong ultimate?

I disagree a bit, specifically pertaining to OP. It's still spicy to heal Garuda and Golden Bahamut auto kills you if you go there without planned mit and heals

[Atelier-Bagur]

I disagree a bit, specifically pertaining to OP. It's still spicy to heal Garuda and Golden Bahamut auto kills you if you go there without planned mit and heals

I think this is where the discussion just starts to dilute. People like OP feel like there class is too inadequate in high level play for it to be considered interesting and fun yet others like myself feel the classes are fine as is due to how its already difficult for them in normal content. I think what we need is a nice middle ground. I would like to see a healing overhaul where the jobs gets more tweaks to heal and deal damage while keeping the class toolkit simple.

I for one started with majorly disagreeing aveyond-dreams arguments because I felt she was being asinine with her complaints, but after reading some stuff here I think I'm starting to understand where she and most of the people who complain are coming from. They dont want complexity, they just seek a bit of flavor in their toolkits that have them do at least one other thing during dps time.

[kpxmanifesto]

If you find all the content boring except Ultimates then why are you playing the game? If you think it is boring because it's not tryhard enough then quit. It's a Final Fantasy game not a FromSoftware game. Final Fantasy has never been a difficult game series or about difficulty.

Lol, this is a borderline toxic reply. He didn't even add anything to the conversation. Just comes in and attacks other players who are offering constructive criticism.

[Et_ela]

The worst part even is that healers asking for more outgoing damage to the party hurts no one. More skilled players want to heal more instead of pressing 1-1-1-1 and less experienced healers won't get chewed on for spamming heals instead of dpsing cause then it actually makes sense to do so. It validates both parties in this case.

And I'm not talking about adding more "no outgoing damage for a whole minute then suddenly bring the target/party to 0, they better be topped off in 10 seconds or die!" cause those aren't even fun, they're just stressful for no reason. In fact it feels like we only get those mechanics to justify our overpowered healing kits. I want things like stronger autos, more frequent and varying in damage raidwides, bleeds, varying damage on players for performing certain mechanics. I could make a list of all the places I wish there were healing in all of the recent tiers. I just want to heal more instead of pressing 1-1-1-1. The only mechanic in mind I actually found enjoyable to heal in recent memory is shiva in e12s since there was thought going into that.

I truly understand wanting all roles and jobs being accessible to everyone but people with healer and tank anxiety are gonna have it regardless of how "easy" or "accessible" it is. Cause literally me @ tanking despite knowing how "easy" it is to hit 1-2-3 and slap a cooldown when a buster hits. I just don't like it! It's not for me. Not everyone needs to like how every role feels. I personally feel that a lot of people think that healing is hard, tanking is hard, because of their anxieties and not actually how the classes themselves play. Tanking is hard for me for this reason. But in that case you should just play a role you enjoy, not at the expense of others who play a particular role exactly for the reason you are anxious about.

As it is now, it's only pushing many healers who enjoy the role out of it because we want to be playing a support but the game is making us play a dps who heals sometimes. They say "healer dps doesn't matter", that's just not true when a lot of times they can mean the difference between a clear or not in savages and ultimates. Heck extremes even! (Looking at adds in levi unreal)

Before anyone says "you're probably in a static"- I am! But also I've spent more hours playing on pf and df than I do with my static. I'm also not a parser, I just like helping people clear content.

[SeverianLyonesse]

I personally think that healers should get basic attack combos. In particular, the same way that Tanks and DPS gain damage and buffs from executing combos properly, healers should get some crowd control and debuffs for proper combo execution. (Slow, heavy, blind, silence, etc.)

I also think that limiting these combos to single target would keep healers busy enough juggling targets to keep debuffs up and only occasionally having time to spam AoEs. We kind of have that with single DoTs but that only feels like half of the potential for a fleshed out healer debuff/DPS kit. Maybe a branching 1-2 combo, with a couple 2s granting different debuffs, would add enough variety.

To my mind, making healers have a secondary debuff/mezzers role just makes sense. It gives them a few more buttons and sense of agency, but in a way that is still easily balanced because the utility is mostly in trash mob control and doesn't affect boss tuning substantially. Since bosses should generally be immune to debuffs and therefore healers would mostly just have to focus on proper rotation.

Another oGCD damage spell per job would also be nice. At least playing Sage I feel like addersting needs more application than one ability.

[seraf]

(Most) healers have long accepted that healing requirements and fight design will not change. That is fine. That is perfectly okay.

What is not okay is the fact we have nothing to do when we are not healing.

There are things to do when you don't need to heal it's called doing damage. Every healer has a dps toolkit for a reason. I'm loving Sage because it focuses so much on dps and reminds me of when Scholar used to be the same way before it got gutted.