What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lauront]

Agreed, this is the feeling I get. I'm a partisan of the "this was supposed to be two expansions" theory (that might be baseless or not, to be fair I haven't really looked into this matter), and 6.0 felt a lot like "all right, let's wrap this up and move on".

He reiterated that they could've done it over 7.0 and even 8.0, a claim Ishikawa has made before, so I think it's a reasonable claim.

On the topic of Zenos, funnily enough I'm unbothered one way or another if he's truly gone. He was perhaps the least of my issues with the story. I did not like him ever since he came back after SB but EW was riddled with so many other issues that he's barely in view, IMO.

I hadn't seen the big ol' answer on Venat. It's pretty telling he (explicitly says he) had to fetch Ishikawa for this long answer. The sole positive I'm taking from this is that her character seems indeed to be pretty hotly contested. That's a relief, at least. And he compares her to Emet-Selch, wringing his hands about "I knoowww you guys totally love him, BUT...", and yeah okay but here's the thing: Emet-Selch is quite explicitly an antagonist. As YoshiP even says, the protagonists challenge him over his claims. The lead-up to the fight is epic, well-written so you know exactly what his convictions are after 12,000 years of toiling in relative emotional isolation, and we very much kick his ass in a climactic moment because it was him or us.

Indeed, although I think viewed another way, it is a fairly major concession that in spite of what the game is trying to portray, she's far from unimpeachable in her conduct.

And then there's Venat. It's all well and good to explain at length she was conflicted and agonizing and wasn't a saint, but then why is she treated so well in-universe? Her claims and beliefs that led to her genociding her people are never challenged by anyone at any point. For Zodiark's sake, the game gave me her minion and her dog! I'm sorry, Emet, but if I had been you in Ultima Thule, I would have torn her an entirely new orifice rather than go "hah, oh you! I get it. gg tyfp". All the arguments we've offered in these hundred pages –– what if she had actually told them everything instead of being paralysed by her own lack of faith in her people, what if Hermes was treated for his goddamned depression and eventually cooperated, what if there had been other experts in Dynamis in this society of scholars and scientists (haha, jk, it can't be because we need this plot to be as contrived as possible for it to work) – maybe Hermes is just like me and writes papers he never submits out of sheer procrastination? #relatable – what if they had researched Dynamis familiars with the proper information, what if they actually seized the apparently illegal AMNESIA MACHINE and investigated events, what if they could use the Echo, as one does, to see what actually happened, what if she'd brought out the space-faring bunnies to make spaceships ("but they said it took them super long to craft!" yes, and Zodiark kept up his shield for 12,000 years while missing 3 arms, 2 wings, his entire abdomen and at least 6 crotch tentacles, I'm not too worried there), what if they could have researched "sundering"/depowering themselves selectively, what if she had given them time to heal from the trauma, what if she had told them exactly the outcome she feared re: Ra-La dudes (which she indeed knew a single line from Meteion about, lmao context doesn't matter have this strawman) in a way that wasn't just offering patronising platitudes at the worst time after unprecedented disaster by her own fault so they could reflect upon it as she has had the luxury to do, what if they had changed in spite of her arrested beliefs, what if Azem had been anywhere at all to do something, anything –– literally none of this is even suggested in-game. This is what feels wrong. The only counter-argument we're presented with is her own self-flagellation while the plot very much wants you to infer this was the only solution anyway because DYNAMIS! VERY SUBTLE RA-LA! As Kizuya brought up like a hundred pages earlier, there is no actual balance to be found in this narrative. It's one thing to say your character was meant to be interpreted this way, it's another to write the story in a way that enough people seriously question how we were meant to interpret them.
It doesn't help that we get to fight her but we never get to kick her ****ing ass like we did with Emet. This is quite the difference. I wasn't here to have a friendly little spar with you on your own terms, sis. I was here for the catharsis I never got outside of writing long-ass forum posts.

And even their comment on the Ra-la situation - it's framed as her believing her people wouldn't change. Yet she never offers them any basis to what she's saying to do so. So that entire thing is unresolved. At least it confirms that the thrust of her concerns is the Plenty and the repeat of their doom, and less so the morality of these vague third stage sacrifices. It's more that she lacked faith that her people would change. She should've reminded herself "nothing is impossible." So his answer does not address what could've happened if they were told the truth in explicit terms.

I mean, first of all, "that might be applicable to Venat"? Uh... yes, it unambiguously is (this might be an artefact of translating Japanese politeness?). And secondly, I'd say context matters and is very different in both cases, re: Emet being a 12,000+ year-old tired old queen of eld who's had just about enough with these very biologically-different people he couldn't relate to.

Even Hermes doesn't go down as smoothly as Emet even though he's very much an antagonist no matter how much of a depressed vegan he is, because the overarching narrative (and YoshiP here, tbh) absolutely tells you he's making a fair point about his people even though this man is burned out and absolutely not okay, with Ismene here stating he isn't really a people person (gee, thanks Ismene, I could tell), but no, his view isn't warped by bias or illness, he's so intent on fairness that he doesn't bother giving humanity a chance to fight back as, again, we are to understand he is a very unique boy with knowledge totally no one else had, so what fighting chance did they have, frankly? And Venat, too, is very keen on preserving the objectivity of his insane test and offering an answer she decided her people would never get right in any circumstances. Who CARES about the rules he set? We outright told you this is going to go to shit!! The world is going to end! Stop following the rules of his stupid game! Everyone and everything is going to DIE! She's walking along the streets of Amaurot with this sad look on her face like "oh no so much pain and suffering", like WOW, pity nobody could have ever done anything!

I have similar sentiments on the above. IMO he at least acknowledges she is controversial in a similar sense that SHB (i.e. 12k years post-Sundering) Emet is - a man changed by the factors you mentioned. And while he attributes this to a characteristic of the ancients, we can point to various other antagonists - sundered, no less - who act in a similar manner, so in my view that isn't a particularly compelling way of looking at it. However, I'm glad that they recognise this about her. I think you'd have to be attempting to gaslight not to do that, so there is that too.

Not entirely certain he is either tbh, he's only dead until they suddenly decide he's not anymore. But I was mostly going off this:



https://www.gamesradar.com/final-fan...ory-interview/

Nice one.