Summoner rework is a huge dissapointment

[Ivven]

I personally also played a lot of other mmorpg, but never experienced such a complete rework of a class and have a def jokingly state that they in effect removed the class. It’s mind boggling to me and this seems only possible in ffx if they removed the necromancer class in eq2 the push back of the players would be extremely though and I would insta quit the game.

Only in ffxiv the community seems to take the stance that’s apparently completely fine to completely remove a class.

You never played WoW? Because they've completely revamped several specs, including a complete overhaul of SV Hunter in Legion to the point where there is no comparing old SV with whatever melee thing it became, and that's only -one- example. Every single class in that game has undergone drastic overhauls.
Don't get me started on when PLDs were second-rate tanks to Ninjas in FFXI back in ye olden days, either.
Every single MMO that survives more than a few years goes through at least a few overhauls. It's the nature of the genre. You either get used to it and adjust or find another game to play. I've done both options.

[aveyond-dreams]

The above post summs it up pretty well. Classes change. Sometimes you will like it. Sometimes you will not. Just because you don't like it does not mean you will be able to strongarm them into changing things back or adding in things the bulk of people do not want-the numbers in favor of the "complexity dot caster!" aren't there, not when compared to everyone who is having fun being an actual Summoner and wants more in the vein of that, whether more is added in 6.X or 7.0.

Some people here act like new SMN is as scandalous as when they turned Bard and Machinist into casters, or that the this topic is as controversial as the whole male Viera drama. It straight up isn't.

The last thing I'm expecting in the live letter is any news related to job balancing, they expressly said this was for something completely different. It's long past the time to move on from this topic. By this point in Shadowbringers I had already bounced from old SMN and was done levelling RDM/BLM/DNC, I wasn't still going in endless circles like these threads are.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

The above post summs it up pretty well. Classes change. Sometimes you will like it. Sometimes you will not. Just because you don't like it does not mean you will be able to strongarm them into changing things back or adding in things the bulk of people do not want-the numbers in favor of the "complexity dot caster!" aren't there, not when compared to everyone who is having fun being an actual Summoner and wants more in the vein of that, whether more is added in 6.X or 7.0.

Some people here act like new SMN is as scandalous as when they turned Bard and Machinist into casters, or that the this topic is as controversial as the whole male Viera drama. It straight up isn't.

The last thing I'm expecting in the live letter is any news related to job balancing, they expressly said this was for something completely different. It's long past the time to move on from this topic. By this point in Shadowbringers I had already bounced from old SMN and was done levelling RDM/BLM/DNC, I wasn't still going in endless circles like these threads are.

Every reasonable person I talked to on here and discord has never said they wanted old smn back. Most including myself want them to correct the problems with the new smn and add more to an unfinished job. You say it's time to move on from this topic, well I say we should continue to voice our minds and criticize a flawed job. You honestly can't tell me with a straight face that new smn is a perfect job and no one should complain about it. It's an unfinished job that the devs need to address and complete. If you are tired of seeing these topics and think smn is perfect then leave, stop looking at these topics on the forums and enjoy your life. Meanwhile, those who actually care about raiding as smn(like myself) will continue to voice our options. You not going to stop us so how about you stop trying. All we want is a job that is fun in high-end content and the same level of quality of a rework that mnk received in this very same expansion.

[aveyond-dreams]

No, it isn't a perfect job. I want to see Shiva/Ramuh/Leviathan and Alexander added. However I also am tuned in enough to know that posting nonstop about it isn't going to make them show up any quicker. The chances of 6.X major updates is low, so realistically I anticipate the changes I want to see in 7.0. That's just how things work around here.

While the current savage tier has no rewards that interest me, I did go out and enjoy myself doing extremes on SMN and would probably do the next round of Savage as SMN if they decide to not give boring gear and a less hideous mount. I prefer an easier job that doesn't require jumping through as many hurdles as old SMN had in order to focus on the actual fight in front of me. I've had a lot of fun with this job in what is classified as high end content, so overall I'd say I'm quite ok with the present state of affairs.

Continue to post about it if you want, I'll enjoy watching from the sidelines and chiming in as I see fit!

[MrJPtheAssassin]

No, it isn't a perfect job. I want to see Shiva/Ramuh/Leviathan and Alexander added. However I also am tuned in enough to know that posting nonstop about it isn't going to make them show up any quicker. The chances of 6.X major updates is low, so realistically I anticipate the changes I want to see in 7.0. That's just how things work around here.

While the current savage tier has no rewards that interest me, I did go out and enjoy myself doing extremes on SMN and would probably do the next round of Savage as SMN if they decide to not give boring gear and a less hideous mount. I prefer an easier job that doesn't require jumping through as many hurdles as old SMN had in order to focus on the actual fight in front of me. I've had a lot of fun with this job in what is classified as high end content, so overall I'd say I'm quite ok with the present state of affairs.

Continue to post about it if you want, I'll enjoy watching from the sidelines and chiming in as I see fit!

By all means, continue to chime in, I honestly don't care but don't tell ppl to stop talking about this topic. Yeah, it may not work but you never know unless you try. Also, I'm fine with smn having a lower skill floor for ppl like you but jobs can also have a high skill ceiling for ppl like myself and others also. Look at reaper, it's the perfect balance between easy to pick up and complexity in savage to me. The same goes for rdm and a lot of other jobs. Smn right now is the only dps I personally can think of that is different. They made it too easy and not rewarding for ppl who want to optimize savage on it. It needs more and its skill ceiling needs to rise, like it or not. I'm personally upset because I really have no job I can really enjoy in savage with my static. I have always been the smn/caster. I wanted to play rpr this tier after I tried and played smn for the first month or two but one member of my static called dibs on it months before EW came out. So I had to settle for rdm since it's the only other caster I semi-liked. Even now though Im growing to dislike it and just wish I could have my smn back that was at least was somewhat challenging. Don't get me wrong, when I say that I don't want ShB smn back, I do like new smn, I just wish it felt more rewarding to play and get better at.

[SweetPete]

Every reasonable person I talked to on here and discord has never said they wanted old smn back. Most including myself want them to correct the problems with the new smn and add more to an unfinished job. You say it's time to move on from this topic, well I say we should continue to voice our minds and criticize a flawed job. You honestly can't tell me with a straight face that new smn is a perfect job and no one should complain about it. It's an unfinished job that the devs need to address and complete. If you are tired of seeing these topics and think smn is perfect then leave, stop looking at these topics on the forums and enjoy your life. Meanwhile, those who actually care about raiding as smn(like myself) will continue to voice our options. You not going to stop us so how about you stop trying. All we want is a job that is fun in high-end content and the same level of quality of a rework that mnk received in this very same expansion.

I agree that summoner definitely feels quite unfinished. I know they were on a pretty tight schedule with jobs and I do feel like they wanted to add more to the job but just didn’t have the time too. I hope in 6.1 there are some changes to it. I main summoner and love it but definitely can see flaws in it and want them to be addressed. Making us wait 2 years will be gut wrenching honestly.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

I agree that summoner definitely feels quite unfinished. I know they were on a pretty tight schedule with jobs and I do feel like they wanted to add more to the job but just didn’t have the time too. I hope in 6.1 there are some changes to it. I main summoner and love it but definitely can see flaws in it and want them to be addressed. Making us wait 2 years will be gut wrenching honestly.

I agree and hope we do see something in 6.1 or even 6.2 that addresses smn issues. There are things they can do right now that could help it out as we wait for 7.0. Just a matter of if they will do it or not. The reason why I strongly believe topics like this one and many others should continue is so ppl have a place to vent and voice their feelings on the job and show the devs not all of us are happy with the current state of the job. Just saying "We won't get changes till 7.0 and Im happy with the job as it." isn't helping either like aveyond-dreams. Their views on things will mean smn will continue to feel bad and feel unfinished. People like them are the reason whm are in the place as it is now also because they are happy with whatever the devs give them and don't point out the glaring problems.

[Aikaal]

It feels like Summoner wasn't playtest in raid environments imho lol.

[aveyond-dreams]

Ah yes. Me liking jobs that don't play like a mathematical equation is the reason why they randomly decided to nerf Thin Air on White Mage (spoiler alert everyone hated that) and why all jobs are becoming more streamlined and less obnoxious in their ability design. I am probably also the reason why Enochian was deleted and made into a trait! Please. Maybe if they had done this rework in *checks notes* Heavensward instead of Endwalker, perhaps Summoner would have more in its kit.

Sadly the past 8 years of wasted time caught up to them, so this is what we have so far. If you do not like it then simply do not play it, and move to other jobs like I had to do when Summoner was in its previous state. Red Mage and Black Mage are still great fun, though Summoner just feels better to me. More will be added and they probably already jotted down the note to add in X abilities whenever they have the time to do so. All this "venting" is just repeating the same things over and over again.

Again, classes change in mmos. You will not like each change they do, and you are not entitled to priority development status because you are unhappy with it in a given patch.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

It feels like Summoner wasn't playtest in raid environments imho lol.

Most likely. I have a feeling they didn't even get to that part in the design phase. I think I remember in an interview that yoshi p said they had to restart the rework a couple of times till they got something they liked for smn. I have a feeling that took up a lot of the time they had for smn and had to push it out in its current state. He also been on a note about how rpr cost them a lot of time and money, the main reason they didn't want to nerf it in 6.08. I can't help to feel like they let jobs like smn, whm, and drk fall to the waist side to make rpr as it is now. Again I could be completely wrong but that is how it feels to me.