Summoner rework is a huge dissapointment

[Aikaal]

When I play current Summoner the only time I feel great is when Aetherflow and Titan is up for quad weave shenanigans. Other then that you pretty much just press Ruin 3 the whole time. Boring as shit.

I'd much rather that instead of Energy Drain that each summon gave you aetherflow stacks to use. And make Ruin 4 oGCD. Breaks up the flow so much.

The job is just like MCH. Once the aesthetic wears off you begin to see all the problems and just think wow this class is shit. What were they thinking?

Edit: I just tried this one button macro shenanigans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjjUkRsV9GI

Some examples from the macro creator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r3T1X0OXIU (Dark Inside Extreme)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BId-R_GKsNc (P2N)

It actually performs well as a one button mashfest. Would I use it outside of funsies? No. Especially since I play differently from this macro rotation.

But it does illustrate a point that the rework is essentially a one button job. All you do is push Ruin 3 forever with fancy fireworks.

You still lose the little optimization from doing a 1 button macro. Another optimization you can do with Aetherflow is hold the Fester stacks for 60s to use time on the rebuff window. It's not like BLM where you can just use your quickcast windows to move around or have a strat involving you not moving much. It's also not like RDM who can hold their melee combo so they don't drift their oGCD or better mobility windows.

[Zofian]

The new Summoner is basically a poor man's Machinist. The biggest issue I have with it is how Ifrit's Egi cycle has recast timers when Garuda and Titan's don't. This actually makes Ifrit unviable and not worth bothering with, as this discrepancy basically means you have to perform something akin to 'double handling'. For Dungeons it's almost worth doing Ifrit's cycle, but for Trials (because of the phases that break up the fight) and Alliance Raids, It's much easier to just do Titan and Garuda, then keep casting Ruin II (and I do) until Bahamut etc recharges, which isn't a long wait. Even using Swiftcast to bypass the first use of Ifrit isn't enough to make me bother using Ifrit full time, as it's more important to hold Swiftcast in reserve incase someone needs resurrecting. Ironically for this class, that is the only real use for Swiftcast now, which means giving us extra Swiftcasts is not the correct way to deal with the Ifrit problem.

As part of Summoner's next overhaul, I think they should make Carbuncle a complete separate Egi, same as Irfit/Garuda/Titan, instead of this elemental attunement nonsense, nor having it as a low level Egi that at higher levels hibernates so the others can come out. Then also include new Leviathan Egi (whose skill knocks the enemy(ies) back via a water blast- yes this is the way it must be) and maybe a Ramuh Egi (as long as it's not hideous, and maybe it's attack can stun/interrupt aswell as damage- yes this means stuns on multiple targets, to make Summoner unique and interesting). Thus Summoner would retain each Egi having a single + multiple target attack as current. This overall would make Summoner more true to the word. The resulting rotation should not require you to go through all the egis, but choose which egi to use based on the situation, with some sense of strategy.

Summoning the Egi of your choice (of which you would now have 6) should be the main thing that has a summon cast timer on it. And as part of the rework, perhaps Bahamut and Phoenix should also get summon cast timers, but longer than the summon cast times of what Carbuncle (shortest) and Titan/Ifrit/Garuda/Leviathan/Ramuh (all medium) would then have. From there, perhaps Energy Drain could refresh the recast timer on Swiftcast, rather than changing Swiftcast to an independent 2-charges system. Or perhaps another alternative is to make Swiftcast cost 1 Aetherflow in order to use it at all, and up the Potency of Fester as a tradeoff. This should work well at low levels as it could make up for the 'firepower' loss from making Carbuncle have only defensive skills and no more of that attunement attack passthrough stuff, then adjust at what level you gain Ifrit/Garuda/Titan/Leviathan/Ramuh Egis. Even if the Summoner quest requires a redo itself.

ps: Can Square please swap the potencies/skill charges of Garuda and Ifrit (and remove the recast time), as Garuda is the stronger Primal, with Titan remaining in between.

[tearagion]

You still lose the little optimization from doing a 1 button macro. Another optimization you can do with Aetherflow is hold the Fester stacks for 60s to use time on the rebuff window. It's not like BLM where you can just use your quickcast windows to move around or have a strat involving you not moving much. It's also not like RDM who can hold their melee combo so they don't drift their oGCD or better mobility windows.

The epic, deep, and hard optimization of not pushing an ogcd button right away. Oh and that's the only optimization, whoops.

[Tulzscha]

Summoning the Egi of your choice ... should be the main thing

Absolutely, SMN needs more freedom of choice with stronger pros and cons for each.

The epic, deep, and hard optimization of not pushing an ogcd button right away. Oh and that's the only optimization, whoops.

When SMNs are so starved for anything at all to do not hitting a button is the hardest thing. xD

[MagiusNecros]

You still lose the little optimization

Oh no. Whatever will I do. Anyway.

I dunno anytime a job gets reworked it gets dumbed down.

I have some issues with it but that's been done to death and I don't want to turn SMN into another Dark Knight cesspool of cacophony.

I just think it's damn amazing how someone created a setup that can turn SMN into a 1 button job because outside of maybe some AoE it really is a one button job.

It's a fun macro for bosses though if you only need to deeps.

However you absolutely suck the fun out of it and have no room for strategy and have full dps tunnel vision.

[Aikaal]

However you absolutely suck the fun out of it and have no room for strategy and have full dps tunnel vision.

I mean, SMN has little room of freedom and choices and this 1 braindead button macro removes the little options you have making the situation worst. That situation is made worst by the player who picks this macro. There is a skill ceiling for all jobs, SMN included. You just hope you aren't tall IRL because that ceiling is pretty low on SMN.

[Zarkovitch]

ifrit needs easier casting time like a ruin 3 due being ass of a primal.

[Sequora]

ifrit needs easier casting time like a ruin 3 due being ass of a primal.

Ifrit cast time is fine. It’s literally one of the only cast times we have. The potencies do need to be looked at though. Having a long cast time should mean they’re really powerful spells.

[Ivven]

There's nothing that needs to "click", you press 1 button for 30 seconds and the second button for the other 30 seconds. You could give the job to someone with the level hidden and say it's a lvl 50 job, no one would realize.

People have the same syndrom as mch or healers, as soon as people talk about the idea of having a bit of ceiling or depth put into the job, casuals that only wants to press one button and have always refused to learn comes with their forks.

Old smn wasnt hard: Pop bahamut -> hardcast dot -> tridaster when they come down -> summon phoenix the gcd after -> tridisaster when dots go down after phoenix -> tri disaster after using transe -> deathflare + bahamut -> hard cast dot -> loop. The rest of the time? ruin 3 and egi assault.

Worst part Ivven: They take a job that people played for 8 years for a specific reason: they like pets, dots, complexity; and made a totally different job with a middle finger to all the old players and the year of feedbacks they provided for years, basically booting them out of the job, same as mch in shb.

Dude, I'm an MMO vet. I know aaaaallll about classes changing after years and years. My first MMO was FFXI where I mained PLD at NA release.

Stuff changes. You have to learn to roll with it or find a different game (or even a different genre). The nature of MMOs is just one of change every major DLC, expansion, or patch.

I like SMN now. It flows a lot more smoothly than before. If people are upset about that--I get it. Some of my favorite classes in various games (EQ2, WoW, FFXI) have been "re-balanced" and retooled and even had entire specs deleted from existence to the point I no longer enjoy or play those classes. But it doesn't affect my personal opinion on how I feel about SMN at this point in time.

And yes, there was plenty that had to "click" with me about this game before I started to enjoy it you don't get to gatekeep my experience in that regard, nor do you know the circumstances surrounding it. The class changes were one factor, but not the only factor.

[tearagion]

It changing isn't a problem, it's infamous for changing every expansion. The problem is these changes are awful in most regards. Of course the blatant disregard for the old SMN player base is another issue, but a more nuanced one that is harder to come to an objective conclusion for.