Alliance Raids and players not waiting for Cutscene Watchers

[Kolaina]

I pull during cutscenes. Especially if it’s the moment someone says cutscenes.

It’s never a “please” wait for cutscenes. It’s never the person watching cutscenes. It’s usually a single word or a demand.

I’m not obligated to wait, as people aren’t obligated to use their manners. If the community had a problem with what I do, they wouldn’t start attacking as soon as I pulled

Also lately, a lot of the cutscene watchers don’t even seem to be new

[AnnRam]

I mean you joined the raid knowing there would potentially be people new to it, the game even tells you when someone is new to the duty. If you have a problem with it then don't join pugs and make your own parties of people who already have or don't care. Yeah, the content is years old, but for many people it's brand new. Especially seeing as how we've had a surge of new players lately. Some of you forget not everyone has been here for years. Your problem began the moment you started playing a story-focused game, que'd for pug content knowing full well there would be people who, surprise surprise actually want to experience the story in a story-focused game (shocking I know), then got mad about it. Obviously, as someone who's done it already I prefer to not have to wait for people especially when I don't have a lot of time, and when I get a group full of people who auto-skip and we just do the content it's nice, but I accept the reality that I will sometimes have to wait, and respect the people who are going through the story for the first time.

Nice I wonder how many pre 24 man raids have you done before to do raid roulettes.

[MaxCarnage]

The real problem with that idea is that other players just bully the person watching cutscenes into skipping so they can continue.

I mean, in my two years of playing, I have never seen anyone bully someone into skipping a cutscene. The only bullying I have EVER seen in regards to someone pulling during cutscene is people bullying and attacking the person who did it. No one who pulls early cares if you watch your cutscene or not. If you skip watching it because of an early pull, that's your decision.

[Aurora_Sylphy]

See, this is why from Shadowbringers onwards they don't really have cutscenes (barring the basic dungeon intro cutscene). They put it before or directly after the dungeon for this very reason. As for why people do it in Allaince Raids as opposed to other content, well that is due to tuning and over gearing. Even the Neir raids can be done with half the people acting like dodo's, so to that one impatient person pulling while people are watching cutscenes, a couple of people missing (even if it happens to be both your healers) isn't really an issue cause those people being late to the boss (or not participating at all) does not really impact being able to kill, just how fast you can kill it.

I found when doing the Neir raids in the first week or two, most people would wait for cutscenes and the like, but once they're like a month or two in, or the next part is released, you would see that kind of actions being much more common I would assume. It's hit or miss depending on your party makeup/composition, and perhaps even server/data centre general makeup. Afterall, all it takes is one person to pull while others watch cutscenes, and everyone then naturally just follows along into the fight. So it's less a culture wide thing and more just once the boss is engaged, you might as well engage too.

This can't really be done in 8 man's, because the in trial cutscenes are only before the fight starts (so while the barrier is still up) and phase transition cutscenes which are mandatory, and as for dungeons, well unlike an Alliance Raid with 24 people, 2 missing from that is not an issue, whereas even one missing from a 4 stack (especially if it's a healer) can be an issue. It's also a time issue. Assuming everyone is not screwing up, with the expectation of the first two Crystal Tower raids (which can be done in like 10-20min depending on player comp) but everything else forward, that being World of Darkness, Void Ark, Rabanastre and Neir can call be a minimum of like 30min to like an hour on average depending on who is new, and if people are screwing up or not. Dungeons won't go beyond 20min really ever even if you are single pulling (so long as people are doing semi-decent damage and not being absolute chodes not playing the game properly or with the tiniest bit of competency), same with trials being on average 5-10 minutes depending on combined skill/player level.

So it's a combination of things. It's one person pulling who is impatient, and so everyone not in a cutscene decides to engage because you might as well once someone pulls the boss, and the fact that barring the first two crystal tower raids, these can go from very fast or absurdly slow. As for what could be done, barring making cutscenes mandatory and un-skippable (which will piss off a fair few people, especially those spamming it for glam), or just locking out the boss until no one is in a cutscene with the usual barrier like it does at the start of any dungeon, not sure what else could be done.

[UkcsAlias]

I pull during cutscenes. Especially if it’s the moment someone says cutscenes.

I have seen that behaviour before when our tank was watching, it ended up with the team getting killed. If you are the tank, then in most cases its well doable, so i would say its no issue. As tank (and especialy if you know the dungeon) you are often well aware of your capabilities. If you can 3man a dugeon, then go ahead and do so. In the end, if you realy care about the fight and missed it because the team was able to beat it without you, you can just do the dungeon twice.

But i have seen toxic cases often enough in which people were complaining about cutscene watchers (of which a few definitely were new). Im glad that they failed hard and ragequited at some point. FF is still a story driven game, so story gets priority in handling issues to me. First time cutscene watchers on that do get priority to me. Too bad the final bosses in dungeons often do not have the same system as raids (but only for first time watchers). It would have solved this discussion (if people are new, you cant start the fight early).

And before thinking: why do i need to wait? You get extra rewards when new people are in the party, that should be enough for that.

[Raoabolic]

2015: Hold on, this isn't Prae. *waits for a minute at max*
Current year: I pull during cutscenes

And people wonder why others say that the community isn't as good as they have heard, lol. We need the trust system to include 24man content and call it a day.

[Kolaina]

snip

Good thing i never queue alone. Usually tank/healer combo so there’s no chance of failing hard. Especially as it will force people into the arena eventually, so long as those people not participating aren’t in a cutscene.

Also, that reward for new people, is minuscule enough to not matter one way of the other. Especially when if its not a max level duty, the reward is minuscule. A little exp which doesn’t make enough difference, or poetics which I don’t need. Note the “for swift completion” in the dialogue when notified of a new player as well.

[UkcsAlias]

Good thing i never queue alone. Usually tank/healer combo so there’s no chance of failing hard. Especially as it will force people into the arena eventually, so long as those people not participating aren’t in a cutscene.

In that case i would definitely say that most fights are going to be easy to handle, there is no need to wait. At least if they say cutscene you know you wont have to wait for them as it will take them extra long anyway. Its better than guessing whether they are afk or not.

Also, that reward for new people, is minuscule enough to not matter one way of the other. Especially when if its not a max level duty, the reward is minuscule. A little exp which doesn’t make enough difference, or poetics which I don’t need. Note the “for swift completion” in the dialogue when notified of a new player as well.

But if im right, most duty roulettes do not involve the max level, and for the levels it has, those poetics do matter. Which if you choose it then, is something you deliberately did. That the rewards are then obsolete is something you accepted the moment you started that duty. (although, for a part you could consider the easy xp as reward vs a difficult dungeon with an equal bonus)

In the end, the real issue is that some cutscenes are excessively long for such boss fight. I can totaly understand that the 10th time you play the dungeon you cant bother waiting for it. If it was enforced, then obviously it will feel out of your control, but it might be easier to accept. But in the end, as most dungeons are easy enough, i dont think its an issue if you proceed anyway. It doesnt matter if the boss took 1 minute or 4 minutes to the player that was watching the cutscene, they will know what happened anyway if the boss happens to be already dead at the end of the cutscene. The story isnt disrupted here at least. They only miss the fight (which especialy for people who only care about the story isnt even an issue).

[FoxyAreku]

So what?

If you get locked out you can just teleport into the arena now, it's not like the old days anymore where if you get locked out you just miss the fight.

[Kolaina]

I can totaly understand that the 10th time you play the dungeon you cant bother waiting for it.

I think this is the point most people who don’t wait have. Though its not necessarily always a numbered value. It could be about how old the content itself is. I understand there will always be new people wanting their first time experience in a place, but maybe mine was 6 years ago. Queueing for say Syrcus as an example, every day, sometimes multiple times a day, looking for a specific piece of loot as my weekly piece.

A lot of this content has been farmed to oblivion. While it may be a persons first run, it could very well be another’s 1000th run. In those 1000 runs, how many “first timers” have they encountered?
How long have they spent waiting? Back when alliances were sort of new, it went beyond waiting for the cutscene. There was often a few minutes of explaining the mechanics in depth to avoid wiping. Waiting, waiting and waiting. I personally, am just done waiting in some of the years old content