Summoner rework is a huge dissapointment

[MrJPtheAssassin]

Then who should be? Raise is literally the best utility spell among damage dealers. I challenge you people downplaying it to name another one that is better.

And it doesn't matter if Raise is useless after progression (as if people never die anymore lol), because what is good for farming after prog is not a good way to balance the jobs. Jobs should all bring something useful to the team when you are trying to clear, so that every player contributes and is able to play their chosen job in parties.

Raise has always been a problem for the caster role because it causes unbalance among the casters. Rdm is better at rez because of dualcast and became a meme as a rez mage back in SB and ShB since they were mostly taken for prog and drop afterward, smn can only rez once per min, and now with EW smn don't really want to rez at all bc swift cast is part of their rotation now, and blm has asked for a rez so they can be apart of prog more. Is raise really good? Yes, but it has caused a lot of problems for the caster role when it comes to filling that role in a party during prog and farming. Personally, I want one of two things to happen to the caster rez. One: just delete it from rdm and smn completely and buff them accordingly. That way we don't have these arguments about who is better for prog and farming among the casters. Or two: Nerf the rez to have a 1 to 2 min cooldown, make it a oGCD and instacast, and make it a role action. That way smn, rdm, and blm has the same type of rez at all time.

[Reinha]

Personally, I want one of two things to happen to the caster rez. One: just delete it from rdm and smn completely and buff them accordingly. That way we don't have these arguments about who is better for prog and farming among the casters. Or two: Nerf the rez to have a 1 to 2 min cooldown, make it a oGCD and instacast, and make it a role action. That way smn, rdm, and blm has the same type of rez at all time.

I agree with these solutions. It could be an oGCD role action, but I'd say the cd should be longer than that so casters aren't solely responsible for raising. Maybe 5 minutes.

BRD and dancer should be at they bottom with the amount of damage utility they provide. No question.

Dancer and Bard because their supports are up 100%?

Also if I never pressed Raise once in a fight, should my DPS still suffer because of it? This is why they should just give SMN/RDM a damage debuff when they use it as compensation, so people would stop complaining about it.

Maybe I should have clarified that I was talking about rDPS, the total damage contribution that takes into account the damage caused from sharing buffs. DNC has two heals with long cooldowns and BRD has Esuna-lite and a healing buff. If the argument is that a Raise is not useful because healers are powerful and constantly bored, then extra heals are even less useful. They can't save a run if healers die, but a Raise can. Jobs in the ranged role don't even offer TP and MP anymore.

Even if you never press Raise during the whole fight, the point is you still have it. Why take a BRD or DNC as a 4th dps when SMN does equal or more damage (rDPS), is equally mobile but is also able to recover a run when it's needed? Other jobs need to provide something that makes up for their lack of utility, and that something has typically been higher dps.

[Rika007]

I agree with these solutions. It could be an oGCD role action, but I'd say the cd should be longer than that so casters aren't solely responsible for raising. Maybe 5 minutes.

Maybe I should have clarified that I was talking about rDPS, the total damage contribution that takes into account the damage caused from sharing buffs. DNC has two heals with long cooldowns and BRD has Esuna-lite and a healing buff. If the argument is that a Raise is not useful because healers are powerful and constantly bored, then extra heals are even less useful. They can't save a run if healers die, but a Raise can. Jobs in the ranged role don't even offer TP and MP anymore.

Even if you never press Raise during the whole fight, the point is you still have it. Why take a BRD or DNC as a 4th dps when SMN does equal or more damage (rDPS), is equally mobile but is also able to recover a run when it's needed? Other jobs need to provide something that makes up for their lack of utility, and that something has typically been higher dps.

I think at this point we all understand what you are saying, we just don't agree. I just don't view the ability to save a run IF things go wrong as that massive of an ability. Especially since the actual use of said resurrections already comes with very real trade offs (Both jobs taking a hit to their DPS, loss of a mobility tool, and the weakness to the player being rezzed). It's balancing around the idea of the lowest common denominator, aka, the worst players. Which is just not how balance should be done.

If the devs are balancing with that in mind then I'd rather they just axe the rez entirely from the caster role and only allow healers to be in charge of it. Heck they removed mana shift and refresh from the Casters and Ranged DPS to give healers some level of agency, just do it with this too.

[Reinha]

I just don't view the ability to save a run IF things go wrong as that massive of an ability.

If the devs are balancing with that in mind then I'd rather they just axe the rez entirely from the caster role and only allow healers to be in charge of it. Heck they removed mana shift and refresh from the Casters and Ranged DPS to give healers some level of agency, just do it with this too.

I didn't see you answer the question, which dps job has better non-damage utility than a raise?

I'd be fine with the raise being completely gone, or alternatively just give it to all jobs. If it's not that useful then surely it wouldn't matter if I could raise as a RPR too... That would still leave SMN with other utility such as party heals and good ranged mobility, and no good justification for doing as much damage as jobs such as BLM, MCH, SAM, NIN and DRG who don't have that luxury.