2hr Abilites (Yes Please!)? or (No Thanks!)?

[Abriael]

To me that second quoted part makes it seem that unless they have a 2hr ability the classes aren't unique, and we're so droll for thinking otherwise. Once again all for class uniqueness, don't need 2 hour cooldowns to achieve that. Emergency "oh shit" buttons can be put on half hour to an hour timers as well. Imo anything longer than 30 minutes is too long.

Again, Characterizing 2 hours ability would sure *contribute* to class uniqueness, so whining about the lack of uniqueness and then antagonizing something that contributes to that is quite droll.

The high cooldown actually contributes to class uniqueness as well. Why? For balancing reasons, the higher the cooldown, the more powerful and cool the abilities can be. The more powerful, the more characterizing potential they have.

Anyway, now that you've stopped bitching, I hope we can have a discussion. I think in order to justify a 2 hour cooldown, the ability itself would have to be very amazing. This in turn leads to tactics being skewered for difficult boss fights due to people beginning to rely on 2 Hour Abilities to win the fights.

Basically everyone will just end up saving their 2 hours for endgame boss fights.

While 2 Hour abilities are a nice concept and I appreciate that they lend themselves favourably to job uniqueness, the fact that they detrimentally effect tactics in the long run makes them something I'd rather not see.

Amazing != gamewinning. There was no 2 hour ability in FFXI that was "gamewinning"mwhile there were quite a few that were definitely amazing and cool. The only problem is that not all of them were.

Also, the fact that the abilities have such a long cooldown actually *contributes* to tactics, since the simple choice on when and how to use them is part of the tactical aspect of a fight. I've seen so many people in FFXI wasting their 2 hours regularly at the wrong time, that it's quite easy to appreciate how tactical their use can be.

Also "for endgame bosses" is quite generic. The fight against an endgame boss doesn't last half a minute, if they're challenging enough, there are plenty critical moments in which one or multiple 2 hour abilities may be useful. Ergo, chosing when to actually use them and when to save them and just try and get by with ordinary abilities is in itself a tactical choice.

A 2 hours is nothing else than a smartbomb. Smartbombs have always been, in gaming, a quite tactical tool.

[Sojiro]

Again, Characterizing 2 hours ability would sure *contribute* to class uniqueness, so whining about the lack of uniqueness and then antagonizing something that contributes to that is quite droll.

The high cooldown actually contributes to class uniqueness as well. Why? For balancing reasons, the higher the cooldown, the more powerful and cool the abilities can be. The more powerful, the more characterizing potential they have.

Why stop there then? Since we're stating the amount of time before you can use the ability again adds more "uniqueness to the class" lets make them ever more powerful and be used every 6 hours....12 hours....a day. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

[Abriael]

Why stop there then? Since we're stating the amount of time before you can use the ability again adds more "uniqueness to the class" lets make them ever more powerful and be used every 6 hours....12 hours....a day. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

I never said I would be against an higher cooldown. Obviously SE thought 2 hours was a nice balance with the power of those abilities, and I agree.

It's a simple concept. The more powerful the more characterizing, the more powerful, the more it needs to be situational. An high cooldown is the perfect way to make a skill situational.

[Nephera]

I never said I would be against an higher cooldown. Obviously SE thought 2 hours was a nice balance with the power of those abilities, and I agree.

It's a simple concept. The more powerful the more characterizing, the more powerful, the more it needs to be situational. An high cooldown is the perfect way to make a skill situational.

A big problem is that they then have to design with 2 hour abilities in mind and you can either let them dominate the fight or gate people from doing content based if they're on cooldown or not.

[Verecund]

A big problem is that they then have to design with 2 hour abilities in mind and you can either let them dominate the fight or gate people from doing content based if they're on cooldown or not.

Finally, someone said it ^ ^

[kukurumei]

A big problem is that they then have to design with 2 hour abilities in mind and you can either let them dominate the fight or gate people from doing content based if they're on cooldown or not.

But at the same time it's a perfect way to mix the casual, semi casual, and hardcore.

A 2h cooldown made it for the impossible, possible. Like a get out of RAGE medicine.

A player who logs in and gets into a bad situation, or go fighting a nasty BCNM will not feel threaten to be playing. Where a hardcore who plays the whole day can't use it every content he/she is burning through.

It's not totally perfect, but the 2hr did work pretty well, in bridging people who goes "see you tomorrow" and those that go the distance.

Later in the game, you could always pay for a COR 2hr to reset your 2hr, if you desperately needed it...

But in any event, Developers who write quests, missions, and boss battles can magically not have to tweak their monsters to counter those 2hr abilities.

People who had it going in were either well prepared or in luck. People who didn't have it had to take on the extra challenge, or try later (thus prolonging the need for new content).

It was a very sly developer's trick.

A heck of a lot more elegant then surplus wouldn't you say?

edit: My stand is still if we had a "2hr" it needs to be worth the wait. Most In XI were rarely needed or factored into a main battle plan.

The main battle plan is...to win. Rarely factored in the main battle plan is pure BS. whatever helped you win, was always factored in. Always.

That's like saying, I'm drunk up the rear, but i'll be ok, let's go in. It doesn't matter if your strategy does or doesn't need someone to be at 100%, winning and losing is the whole point.

I have never seen a party walk into a challenging BC where they're not fingering their 2hr ability. I rather have an invincible if someone DCs, the healer is lagging, the DD went "oops I missed that SATA" or even if nothing is wrong, I rather have that buffer of assurance: I'm going to win.

2hrs are always wanted. That's the point, it's your ace up the sleeve. Winning or loosing, I rather be winning.

It's like the old Fenrir prime strategies. No matter what people came with, the risk involved with his Howling moon was always risky. Everyone always fingered their 2hrs.
Most general strategies for his fight turned into

1: Preparation, if howling moon was too nasty, invincible+ benediction
2: point of no return: If howling moon killed the tank or key members, bumrush. Manafonts, chainspell stuns, the works
3: Prevention: soul voice dark carol, chain spell stuns, etc.

there were always sound strategies like pin point stun, running cancel, kite cancel, etc. But It was always good to have those 2hrs ready.

[Nephera]

People who had it going in were either well prepared or in luck. People who didn't have it had to take on the extra challenge, or try later (thus prolonging the need for new content).

It mostly ended up being try later, XI players were notorious for excluding people from groups for not being 100%.

It was a very sly developer's trick.

Yes it is, XI used a lot of those little tricks to make the game take a very very long time to play. We're not really at the point where we want to be slowing people down to experience all the wonders of punching yet more goats though.

and the other problem with developers tricks is eventually people will realize you're doing them and they don't take very kindly to your continued use of them.

Which is why I imagined they lessened the experience curve and took out deleveling/experience loss.


edit: or the tricks just make people hate the game (See: castlevania 2)

A heck of a lot more elegant then surplus wouldn't you say?

Yes, surplus could have been easily achieved by doing the OTHER trick of "rested" xp without upsetting nearly as many people.