Should Summoner's Elemental Mastery Trait (lvl 86) be moved to lower levels?

[Mae_Proet]

On one hand, it should definitely be a lower level to make the class more engaging, sooner. But on the other hand, if move it to say, level 60, then you won't have any new buttons or ANYTHING from 60 to 90. Which is more of a problem with the job in general but yknow.

Like I told someone earlier, I don't think having any new buttons throughout the leveling process is bad. More or less having a complete kit earlier encourages the player, I believe, to focus on enjoying the battle encounters rather than relearn rotations/openers. In general, I would like it if every job in this game had most of their kit by 50 with only one skill learned every expansion. I believe it'd make the leveling experience a lot cleaner and more predictable.

[Mae_Proet]

I was saying this in a more controversial thread about summoner changes too, but it was sadly ignored. The trait definitely should appear at lower levels since I feel it offers the biggest factors into deciding what order to cast summons in.

Agree. The decision making you get to make at 90 is lacking at lower levels because of this trait being earned so late. I genuinely believe moving this trait down would do so much for the job.

[Ferrinus]

Ideally Summoner would get something that isn't just a graphical upgrade in every expansion's ten-level range. If Elemental Mastery happens at 50, and from 50-60 you get Deathflare, and from 60-70 you get Bahamut, and from 70-80 you get Phoenix (maybe you could put some Summoner-unique revive spell here, replacing the Arcanist's Resurrect?), you could save Ruin IV and/or some sort of bespoke energy drain/aetherflow upgrade for the 80-90 range (with 90 being the big graphical and potency upgrade to your elemental summons as before).

[ChazNatlo]

Give the basic abilities at 50 with Enkindle or at 60 with Ahk Morn. Make them something less spectacular, The Ifrit Closer without the follow up, Garuda's ability doesn't leave the field DOT, or it doesn't last as long... something about weakening Titan... then Flesh it out at 86. Ifrit gets a two hit, you get the full DOT... Something something Titan...

[Jayps]

I absolutely agree. I've played SMN synced down to lvl 50 one time and: NEVER. AGAIN.EVER. I would much rather go back to managing timers for both Bio and Miasma than go through the motions of summoning different carbuncles/egi/whatever that HAVE NO DISTINCTION WHATSOEVER, wondering why the heck they gave SMN such an empty mini-game in the first place.

[Grimoire-M]

Sure, but I’d prefer a rework. It’s not going to make much of a difference when it’s learned and the whole kit is full of issues either way.

[Sequora]

Sure, but I’d prefer a rework. It’s not going to make much of a difference when it’s learned and the whole kit is full of issues either way.

You’re out of your mind if you think we’re getting another full rework.

[Grimoire-M]

You’re out of your mind if you think we’re getting another full rework.

It's fundamentally necessary because the current rotation doesn't allow any room for new actions or mechanics that add meaningful gameplay without at the bare minimum throwing out the Avatars. And that's entirely due to how the Resummons function. To be clear, I have nothing against the intention behind putting the Avatars in the kit. They're amazing looking and it's clearly part of what's been missing from prior iterations. But the way they're implemented is the primary reason Summoner's kit will not scale in the long term due to its current state. That's inarguable. The current implementation must go if you want to be able to implement more (and better) Summoner-like mechanics in the kit.

I've gone over the explicit technical reasons why about a dozen times at this point. If you don't want to see it that's your problem.

[Sequora]

I just don’t think they’re going to start from scratch again. I think we’ll get changes to the system they’ve created.

I think going forward it needs to becoming a proc based caster.

They could for instance add another astral flow type ability that would differ per phase and be proc based. It would add a third button to the rotation, and would give you something to manage. Maybe for titan it as a 3 to your 1-2 combo and is a DPS increase.

I’m sure we’ll get leviathan, shiva, and ramuh next expansion.

Maybe there’s some kind of % chance that your gems will be “upgraded”. Ruby would change to diamond. Shiva would be a slight upgrade to ifrit with some kind of twist. Maybe you have to use it next or you lose it. This would force people to make decisions about whether the next mechanic will allow them to safely use the upgraded gem.

SE is moving away from DoTs altogether. I wouldn’t be surprised if all jobs lose them by 7.0.

[Grimoire-M]

I just don’t think they’re going to start from scratch again. I think we’ll get changes to the system they’ve created.

I think going forward it needs to becoming a proc based caster.

They could for instance add another astral flow type ability that would differ per phase and be proc based. It would add a third button to the rotation, and would give you something to manage. Maybe for titan it as a 3 to your 1-2 combo and is a DPS increase.

I’m sure we’ll get leviathan, shiva, and ramuh next expansion.

Maybe there’s some kind of % chance that your gems will be “upgraded”. Ruby would change to diamond. Shiva would be a slight upgrade to ifrit with some kind of twist. Maybe you have to use it next or you lose it. This would force people to make decisions about whether the next mechanic will allow them to safely use the upgraded gem.

SE is moving away from DoTs altogether. I wouldn’t be surprised if all jobs lose them by 7.0.

I’d rather not focus on getting attached to constant reskins of barebones gameplay (Levi/Ramuh/Shiva) or borrowing mechanics from other jobs when we had a functional and more importantly scalable kit in Shadowbringers that could have also supported this rework inside of it. Furthermore, I want actual factual pet mechanics, not superfluous bloat that is worse than what DoTs and Bane provided (procs) and the Resummons are the primary thing in the way of that. If they don’t go that can’t happen at all. Carbuncles are the future of the job, not Avatars.