Current top 100th percentile on P1S since 6.08 buffs

[Kazimere]

Each category has merit, which is why they are included.

NDPS is a good measure of a job's raw strength in a pug scenario, as it's solely your own ability to play the job minus buffs. This was added recently because it's harder to determine whether a job like Black Mage and a job like Red Mage stack up in uncoordinated groups / PF play.

RDPS is a good measure of a job's overall strength, which is why it's the primary metric used for FFLogs.

ADPS is a good measure for a player capitalizing on party buff windows, because both R/NDPS generally favor selfish play for non-buffing jobs, which is less useful if your goal is optimization.

What? No. That is not how rDPS works, and aDPS and nDPS are basically the same thing. If a strong aDPS job is top in rDPS that means it’s busted. Right now, BLM is busted. It’s not a surprise really, because this is what happened back in SHB. It should not be number two in rDPS, and it should not be so far above RDM/SMN. This disparity is seen in the aDPS bracket, which is the true power potential of a job. People act like the buff jobs are massively shooting up the brackets with their buffs, and it’s just not the case.

[CKNovel]

What? No. That is not how rDPS works, and aDPS and nDPS are basically the same thing. If a strong aDPS job is top in rDPS that means it’s busted. Right now, BLM is busted. It’s not a surprise really, because this is what happened back in SHB. It should not be number two in rDPS, and it should not be so far above RDM/SMN. This disparity is seen in the aDPS bracket, which is the true power potential of a job. People act like the buff jobs are massively shooting up the brackets with their buffs, and it’s just not the case.

From FFLogs itself:

rDPS is great for showing how much damage you really contributed to the raid, For utility jobs like Dancer and Ninja, the metric depends on people making good use of your buffs, so some damage you contribute to the raid is out of your control.

nDPS is great for showing how well you executed your rotation. This allows, for example, Dancers and Ninjas, to see how well they did even if placed with underperforming partners or groups.

aDPS removes single target padding, but still rewards you for playing to AOE buffs. It also doesn't include your buff contributions, so this metric allows you to evaluate how well players are aligning their damage bursts with external AOE buffs.

You can check for yourself.

[Aikaal]

DPS - what you got with all the buffs
rDPS - helps you figure you the real DPS you did because it substracts all buffs you got and adds all buffs you did.
nDPS - removes all buffs bonus, I guess it helps to see if your rotation did well if your job like DNC relies on others performance but it would also hide if you're bad at doing those party buffs.
aDPS - This is DPS minus the specific single target buffs like Dragon Sight, Astro cards and Standard Step. I don't favor this one personally. You can see in nDPS which job would be best to tax on and you'll just tax that job.



You see this nDPS, this is normal that both BLM and SAM are top DPS since they are pure firepower. What's not normal is that you'd rather dance partner every melee DPS in the game over MCH because MCH is pure firepower. nDPS also allows you to see the reason RDM > SMN right now is because Embolden taxes more than Searing Light. It also helps you notice that DNC & BRD are stronger than SMN if your party is optimized and know what they are doing because they fully uses your buffs. I don't really see the benefit of aDPS, it's there, it can be fun to watch numbers but I personally don't use it. I don't see the benefits because as a DNC/AST, it's part of your job complexity to actually learn who's better to dance partner / cards or not.

[Payadopa]

Are you sure about that? Because so far, everyone who says something like "x job is so easier to pull good numbers" don't play it so they have a biased opinion because they see a simple rotation. Should I check this guy which job he plays? :\ Ah yes, the guy that plays Reaper which is absolutely easy to play that's gonna say that MCH and SMN are easier to pull numbers.

I honestly don't get what you're saying. I want more job diversity. If RPR had the lowest deeps I'd still play it because I like it. Again, it needs _some_ balance so every combination of jobs can clear content. I think we can all agree on that. Everything beyond that will and already does stifle job design. Make SMN lower, I don't care. I'm just happy it's an actual summoner.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

I honestly don't get what you're saying. I want more job diversity. If RPR had the lowest deeps I'd still play it because I like it. Again, it needs _some_ balance so every combination of jobs can clear content. I think we can all agree on that. Everything beyond that will and already does stifle job design. Make SMN lower, I don't care. I'm just happy it's an actual summoner.

I dont think anyone saying every job should be the same and do the same numbers, job diversity is important and there always be someone on the bottom but the gap between the top dps and bottom dps and the gaps in between should be balanced. Why we need balance, it's not really so every combination of jobs can clear content we already have that but its more about encouraging groups to take every job and allow the person to take the job they enjoy the most. There are ppl out there who will deny your fav job because it's underperforming compared to other jobs in its role. There are also people who will switch to a job from their fav so they don't cuck their own team since they know the other job is a better choice over their fav job. For example, when SQ over buff smn to the point it was doing dps close to and even over a blm this led to groups not wanting BLMs or RDMs since smn was the best of both. SMN had really high dps and had a rez so why take a BLM who couldn't rez or an rdm who did inferior damage. Overall we need balance so ppl can play their job at all levels of play without worrying about ppl denying them access. At least that is how I see it. Also, look at the pick rates for jobs and you see what Im talking about. There was a post in this thread showing picks for the top 10 speed runs. For casters 52% was BLMs, 40% was RDM and smn was a miserable 8%.

[Aikaal]

I honestly don't get what you're saying. I want more job diversity. If RPR had the lowest deeps I'd still play it because I like it. Again, it needs _some_ balance so every combination of jobs can clear content. I think we can all agree on that. Everything beyond that will and already does stifle job design. Make SMN lower, I don't care. I'm just happy it's an actual summoner.

The reason it's important is,
- First, yeah, you play the job you like and love before meta. Most players do that and it's perfectly fine. But it's not the interest of the topic.
- Second and it's the most important part, the guy that was quoted saying SMN and MCH should be doing low damage. I've learned that almost everyone that says that is usually biased. People that seek the game to be balanced will see and acknowledge that jobs are undertuned. Said person doesn't play Ranged Physical or Caster. He plays a melee DPS. Suddenly, it becomes a main RPR that thinks SMN/MCH shouldn't be doing good damage because they are easy.

Well, for instance, I personally have played Reaper. I find the job incredibly simple to play. It's super easy to do damage so it should do low damage in my opinion. But then, you realize my RPR is only level 79. Don't get me wrong, RPR is pretty simple to play. However, triple enshroud window is a thing and it's not easy to pull. The RPR in my group has shared me that, yeah, RPR is simple casually but optimizing is challenging. That goes for every job. There are some SMN that are 95+ percentiles that do things you'd never think to do as a casual. For example, you'd never think to hold your fester stacks for 60 seconds. But it is better do have 4 Festers under the buff window. By the way.. that's a very simple concept that everybody do in jobs when optimizing. A casual just press shiny buttons. The problem with SMN is the game don't let you optimize at all and restricts you so 6.0 SMN needs a rework anyways.

I believe its important because misinformation is a real thing and unless you have solid background on caster or physical ranged with optimal gameplay and then you say that SMN is fine, then I'll start listening properly. Because a lot of people are all about, "My job is my favorite and my job should be better than your job."

[Awkward]

From FFLogs itself:

rDPS is great for showing how much damage you really contributed to the raid, For utility jobs like Dancer and Ninja, the metric depends on people making good use of your buffs, so some damage you contribute to the raid is out of your control.

nDPS is great for showing how well you executed your rotation. This allows, for example, Dancers and Ninjas, to see how well they did even if placed with underperforming partners or groups.

aDPS removes single target padding, but still rewards you for playing to AOE buffs. It also doesn't include your buff contributions, so this metric allows you to evaluate how well players are aligning their damage bursts with external AOE buffs.

You can check for yourself.

Yes, and with raid buff jobs their damage goes up exponentially with a SAM and BLM which contribute by far the most damage to their raid buffs making BLM and SAM the definitive 'meta' jobs, this is mirrored in total party DPS which they have an enormous advantage in. This isn't rocket science, SAM right now gives 300+ more rdps to DNC vs everything not BLM, just because the SAM gets taxed for it it doesn't mean the DPS just disappears. BLM and SAM are overpowered right now and while their personal DPS _should_ be higher, it shouldn't be so much higher that they're competing and even beating jobs in raid DPS despite not even having one. In 6.05 they were balanced, right now they are not and did not need to receive any buffs at all. MCH as a job is mostly suffering because BRD and DNC have the strongest raid buffs in the game which they use to pad the strongest jobs in the game leaving MCH as a bad pick. The balance between MCH/DNC/BRD would not be so bad were it not for how overpowered SAM and BLM are, as MCH is fulfilling its role as doing way more personal damage than either.

[Leiron]

Yes, and with raid buff jobs their damage goes up exponentially with a SAM and BLM which contribute by far the most damage to their raid buffs making BLM and SAM the definitive 'meta' jobs, this is mirrored in total party DPS which they have an enormous advantage in. This isn't rocket science, SAM right now gives 300+ more rdps to DNC vs everything not BLM, just because the SAM gets taxed for it it doesn't mean the DPS just disappears. BLM and SAM are overpowered right now and while their personal DPS _should_ be higher, it shouldn't be so much higher that they're competing and even beating jobs in raid DPS despite not even having one. In 6.05 they were balanced, right now they are not and did not need to receive any buffs at all. MCH as a job is mostly suffering because BRD and DNC have the strongest raid buffs in the game which they use to pad the strongest jobs in the game leaving MCH as a bad pick. The balance between MCH/DNC/BRD would not be so bad were it not for how overpowered SAM and BLM are, as MCH is fulfilling its role as doing way more personal damage than either.

For what reason would you bring SAM or BLM if their DPS is not significantly better? If your job provides nothing but damage, then it makes sense they would beat everyone else who provides utility in the way of buffs. If it isn't significant enough to be better, then there is no reason to do so. At that point, you're just making the game harder for yourself for...no reason.
if picking BLM means the fight finishes in 10 seconds as opposed to 11 seconds, while they are playing properly, why bring them? I can't agree with this notion of "yeah your personal DPS can be better, but not so much better that that you stand out, even though thats all you bring".

[Aikaal]

For what reason would you bring SAM or BLM if their DPS is not significantly better? If your job provides nothing but damage, then it makes sense they would beat everyone else who provides utility in the way of buffs. If it isn't significant enough to be better, then there is no reason to do so. At that point, you're just making the game harder for yourself for...no reason.
if picking BLM means the fight finishes in 10 seconds as opposed to 11 seconds, while they are playing properly, why bring them? I can't agree with this notion of "yeah your personal DPS can be better, but not so much better that that you stand out, even though thats all you bring".

You'd bring a Samurai only if you'd have a Dancer in the party. Here's the difference however.

All melee are having competitive performances. However, for casters, in term of performances, Black Mage is simply dusting both SMN/RDM. You ideally only want to bring 1 selfish DPS. That means your ideal comp is something along the line of RPR/MNK/(BRD/DNC)/BLM. You'd partner the BLM on DNC. There isn't really a spot for SAM unless you do something like MNK/SAM/(RDM/SMN)/(DNC/BRD). I'm telling you, in term of raw performances, BLM > all casters in term of DPS. Black Mage is either too powerful or SMN/RDM are undertuned. Whichever SE decides to pick.

[Awkward]

For what reason would you bring SAM or BLM if their DPS is not significantly better? If your job provides nothing but damage, then it makes sense they would beat everyone else who provides utility in the way of buffs. If it isn't significant enough to be better, then there is no reason to do so. At that point, you're just making the game harder for yourself for...no reason.
if picking BLM means the fight finishes in 10 seconds as opposed to 11 seconds, while they are playing properly, why bring them? I can't agree with this notion of "yeah your personal DPS can be better, but not so much better that that you stand out, even though thats all you bring".

Because you're laboring under the misconception that any job brings anything significant but damage, whether it comes from your copy paste raid buff that 12 out of 15 DPS jobs have out of sheer lazy design, or yourself, it's all the same. If SAM or BLM contribute far more DPS than a crappy ~200 raid dps buff like arcane circle provides then there is simply no reason to bring a reaper, especially when every other job with a buff is going to want to bring the jobs that give them much more DPS under them. So what you're implying is it's fair for some jobs to be excluded rather than others because right now SAM and BLM have been definitive kings of the meta for years already. Should just give everyone a raid buff at this point since almost every job has one already then no one can use this faulty argument anymore.

People still think this is 4.0 for some reason, we now have several dps metrics to put jobs under a magnifying glass so we know which jobs are contributing the most overall DPS and which ones are lacking, and the lacking jobs aren't SAM or BLM that's for sure. As the only reason the 4.0 and prior meta existed was for pad log comparison because it never counted anything else except just straight DPS(all forms of pad included), now SAM and BLM ARE the pad and probably always have been in reality.