The dev team did a fantastic job on the MNK rework. I love it.

[ssunny2008]

snip

Jsnip

Do you guys even remember how it started? About all the bs crusades to remove positionals?

NOONE has been an asshole in first instance. You guys just have been liers. You searched for arguments to get ride of positionals just to cater your own, not to improve the game. You´re just lazy to play them. You didn´t like GL, you didn´t like positionals, heck you didn´t like all what made MNK a MNK, but "you loved the aestethics".
MNK has never been a class for you guys, NEVER! Gameplay-wise it was so far away from what you guys wanted and ppl told you that. Hell, Mikey has told NavNav about 20 times now (atleast 5 times in this thread), that MNK has been the only choice to play if you want a positional-heavy job. Either no answer came or just "Positionals suck, lol."

You guys just have been selfish and you still are. Checking out your stuff and going through all your claims, you don´t even want to main MNK in the first instance and you guys aren´t that great on its execution. You do even claim controversial stuff for whatever reason. You guys had never any intention to look for a compromise or to play another melee which suits your gameplay-choice. Not even NavNav who loves DRG and its positionals, nono... better rework MNK.

So what?? Do you guys really believe you earn some respect after claiming dozens of bs, never agree to disagree and in the end you went into the first EW positional-thread to be like "Hahahahahha just fck you MNK Vets, go play something else now!" ?!

And no, you guys don´t want the best for MNK or the game, you want the best for yourself. More than enough MNK mains lost a class they loved and the game lost another unique option to play. Stop lieing to yourself srsly. Not any MNK main went into another class thread being like "I hate all about the class, please add positionals on it!", NOONE. And serious ppl can accept, when a class isn´t something for them, so they go find another one. And FF14 has more than enough classes, but nono... Ppl who never touched MNK all the way needs to be catered, nonsense, just nonsense...

[Navnav]

Do you guys even remember how it started? About all the bs crusades to remove positionals?

NOONE has been an asshole in first instance. You guys just have been liers. You searched for arguments to get ride of positionals just to cater your own, not to improve the game. You´re just lazy to play them. You didn´t like GL, you didn´t like positionals, heck you didn´t like all what made MNK a MNK, but "you loved the aestethics".
MNK has never been a class for you guys, NEVER! Gameplay-wise it was so far away from what you guys wanted and ppl told you that. Hell, Mikey has told NavNav about 20 times now (atleast 5 times in this thread), that MNK has been the only choice to play if you want a positional-heavy job. Either no answer came or just "Positionals suck, lol."

You guys just have been selfish and you still are. Checking out your stuff and going through all your claims, you don´t even want to main MNK in the first instance and you guys aren´t that great on its execution. You do even claim controversial stuff for whatever reason. You guys had never any intention to look for a compromise or to play another melee which suits your gameplay-choice. Not even NavNav who loves DRG and its positionals, nono... better rework MNK.

So what?? Do you guys really believe you earn some respect after claiming dozens of bs, never agree to disagree and in the end you went into the first EW positional-thread to be like "Hahahahahha just fck you MNK Vets, go play something else now!" ?!

And no, you guys don´t want the best for MNK or the game, you want the best for yourself. More than enough MNK mains lost a class they loved and the game lost another unique option to play. Stop lieing to yourself srsly. Not any MNK main went into another class thread being like "I hate all about the class, please add positionals on it!", NOONE. And serious ppl can accept, when a class isn´t something for them, so they go find another one. And FF14 has more than enough classes, but nono... Ppl who never touched MNK all the way needs to be catered, nonsense, just nonsense...

What makes me actually LOL about this post, is that you actually make it seem like we rolled up in squares HQ all like "YOOOOOOOOOOOOO FAM, you lot better remove those positionals on that monk class so I can mock Ssbunny"... Like mate, you gotta chill. At the moment it seems like we living in your head rent free lmfao.

[ssunny2008]

What makes me actually LOL about this post, is that you actually make it seem like we rolled up in squares HQ all like "YOOOOOOOOOOOOO FAM, you lot better remove those positionals on that monk class so I can mock Ssbunny"... Like mate, you gotta chill. At the moment it seems like we living in your head rent free lmfao.

You´ve dreams lol. I keep laughing about you and your friend at best yeah. It´s a mystery that so much bs doesn´t cause a headache to yourself. Just because i write something down and you can´t accept the truth about what happened in the past, doesn´t mean i care about you in any way.

[Navnav]

you can´t accept the truth

Are YOU saying that to me? lulz...

[SineNomine]

Do you guys even remember how it started? About all the bs crusades to remove positionals?

NOONE has been an asshole in first instance. You guys just have been liers. You searched for arguments to get ride of positionals just to cater your own, not to improve the game. You´re just lazy to play them. You didn´t like GL, you didn´t like positionals, heck you didn´t like all what made MNK a MNK, but "you loved the aestethics".
MNK has never been a class for you guys, NEVER! Gameplay-wise it was so far away from what you guys wanted and ppl told you that. Hell, Mikey has told NavNav about 20 times now (atleast 5 times in this thread), that MNK has been the only choice to play if you want a positional-heavy job. Either no answer came or just "Positionals suck, lol."

You guys just have been selfish and you still are. Checking out your stuff and going through all your claims, you don´t even want to main MNK in the first instance and you guys aren´t that great on its execution. You do even claim controversial stuff for whatever reason. You guys had never any intention to look for a compromise or to play another melee which suits your gameplay-choice. Not even NavNav who loves DRG and its positionals, nono... better rework MNK.

So what?? Do you guys really believe you earn some respect after claiming dozens of bs, never agree to disagree and in the end you went into the first EW positional-thread to be like "Hahahahahha just fck you MNK Vets, go play something else now!" ?!

And no, you guys don´t want the best for MNK or the game, you want the best for yourself. More than enough MNK mains lost a class they loved and the game lost another unique option to play. Stop lieing to yourself srsly. Not any MNK main went into another class thread being like "I hate all about the class, please add positionals on it!", NOONE. And serious ppl can accept, when a class isn´t something for them, so they go find another one. And FF14 has more than enough classes, but nono... Ppl who never touched MNK all the way needs to be catered, nonsense, just nonsense...

Uh, wow. I just wandered in here and have no horse in this race (I last played MNK seriously in 2.0 and haven't it touched it but for casual play since) but...is this a parody of "gamer rage"? I admit that it's easy for me personally to not be passionate about something like this from the outside but gosh, I can't imagine an adult actually writing this. I can't relate to liking any mechanic in a game so much that the removal of (some) of it caused me to fly out of control like this.

Are a few skills losing a positional requirement so upsetting that you accuse people happy with the change of being lazy, selfish liars? Did I miss the part where this dude wished your family died or something?

[ssunny2008]

Uh, wow. I just wandered in here and have no horse in this race

It has nothing to do with "gamer-rage" or something lol.
It's just already a year of bs postings especially from NavNav. At any time one or another guy tried to reply serious to him, he claimed controversial stuff, has been completely ignorant or showed up like "You guys suck." with bis 1 sentence posts, because ppl disagreed. If i remember correctly, he even wanted to leave the forum multiple times, but is still here.
I wouldn't even give a credit to ppl like him in RL. He's a troll and the time for some respect is gone.

(And Yeah... talking about adults in a game like FF14, where dozens of ppl run around with half-naked lalas claiming uwu....)

[SineNomine]

It has nothing to do with "gamer-rage" or something lol.
It's just already a year of bs postings especially from NavNav. At any time one or another guy tried to reply serious to him, he claimed controversial stuff, has been completely ignorant or showed up like "You guys suck." with bis 1 sentence posts, because ppl disagreed. If i remember correctly, he even wanted to leave the forum multiple times, but is still here.
I wouldn't even give a credit to ppl like him in RL. He's a troll and the time for some respect is gone.

(And Yeah... talking about adults in a game like FF14, where dozens of ppl run around with half-naked lalas claiming uwu....)

Ok, to be fair I have no knowledge of their individual history so that may change the calculus for sure. If he's an asshole it makes more sense to respond in kind...but I don't know, it still feels like overreacting. We are still talking about a pretty minor change in a video game. Even if you preferred it the old way, we are talking about losing a TINY bit of fun in the grand scheme of things. You are totally allowed to vent frustrations, but it's ultimately nothing to get too worked up over. If that dude is trolling I'd just hit ignore and move on.

As for the throwaway comment at the end, the game has room for lots of groups. I don't really think adults are the ones running around with half-naked lalas "claiming uwu". 1.0 released in 2010, so for veterans even if they originally joined when they were 13 they would be in their mid 20s now. And FFXIV has a lot of features that make it attractive to older players in the MMO sphere in specific (Ironically, this specific change here to positionals is a HUGE boon for the older crowd with slower reaction times, tanking MNK from close to unplayable to really fun. It's a shame it has to come at the cost of you and others enjoying the class a bit less though).

[ssunny2008]

How is it trolling to not like something? Is it because I hard disagreed with you multiple times?
Don't matter anyway, think what you want.

Disagree only hm? And if it would be me only lol....

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5651433 :

I'm going to bow outta this one. It is obvious I am not dealing with normal people, if they think removing some arbitrary positional requirements are the same as removing hotkeys.

Simply blown away by the way some players think on these boards...

And such stuff repeats across the whole board. Troll comments, troll statements, unexperienced and controversial claims to anyone who disagree with you or even just made a statement to OP. On top you ignore ppl, who ask you serious about your ideas or experience, because you obviously has no serious meaning. Of course you don´t recognize such bs by yourself.

but I don't know, it still feels like overreacting. We are still talking about a pretty minor change in a video game.

It might be overall a minor change, but in kind of gameplay it´s just another major issue. The game lost so many stuff with any patches, classes got hard homogenized and simplified. The actual MNK is a worse NIN/SAM combo without variation or anything to take care about... seriously, what´s next? Another 1 button macro-class like SMN? Before MNK has offered something unique, which is not the case anymore. And if i would like to play something braindead or homogenized, i would´ve picked something else.
It doesn´t make sense to dumb down everything for the last fool on earth, when we´ve a lot of classes which could offer a lot of variety. As i´ve said above, what would be bad about a compromise like i´ve written down? Only selfish ppl would want to be able to play everything.
I do get atleast if something is not aesthetically attractive while another class might be. But do we PLAY for visuals or for the gameplay? The game offers more than enough customization anyway.

And those who never intended to use MNK in savage content, could play it easily without positionals or atleast try to stuck behind the boss. It has been all clearable as it is on any other melee. Positionals offer optimization and some kind of engaging gameplay, but noone have to hit 100% of them.

As for the throwaway comment at the end, the game has room for lots of groups. I don't really think adults are the ones running around with half-naked lalas "claiming uwu". 1.0 released in 2010, so for veterans even if they originally joined when they were 13 they would be in their mid 20s now. And FFXIV has a lot of features that make it attractive to older players in the MMO sphere in specific (Ironically, this specific change here to positionals is a HUGE boon for the older crowd with slower reaction times, tanking MNK from close to unplayable to really fun. It's a shame it has to come at the cost of you and others enjoying the class a bit less though).

I´m a bit older too, but i still try to give my best and i learn my classes. I might have an easier life with it than others, but i´ve also seen more than enough "bad players" becoming really really good after practicing and trying. Reaction times aren´t even really needed in FF14 since it´s always rinse and repeat. There is nearly 0 RNG especially on melee-classes and the content follows strict patterns.

And given to the age and experience, older players should´ve more respect for unique mechanics. They should know that homogenization is able to kill games or atleast the whole experience. Old gamers have gone trough all bs a bunch of times, for sure... but instead of a bit of understanding or going for a compromise, a lot pick the selfish way. It´s not like younger or overall other players have the same right to enjoy a game as they do or did with 50 other games in the past. Such stubborness combined with claims like "I want the best for MNK!" is a serious joke...

[Navnav]

It has nothing to do with "gamer-rage" or something lol.
It's just already a year of bs postings especially from NavNav. At any time one or another guy tried to reply serious to him, he claimed controversial stuff, has been completely ignorant or showed up like "You guys suck." with bis 1 sentence posts, because ppl disagreed. If i remember correctly, he even wanted to leave the forum multiple times, but is still here.
I wouldn't even give a credit to ppl like him in RL. He's a troll and the time for some respect is gone.

(And Yeah... talking about adults in a game like FF14, where dozens of ppl run around with half-naked lalas claiming uwu....)

How is it trolling to not like something? Is it because I hard disagreed with you multiple times?
Don't matter anyway, think what you want.

[Taranok]

And no, you guys don´t want the best for MNK or the game, you want the best for yourself. More than enough MNK mains lost a class they loved and the game lost another unique option to play. Stop lieing to yourself srsly. Not any MNK main went into another class thread being like "I hate all about the class, please add positionals on it!", NOONE. And serious ppl can accept, when a class isn´t something for them, so they go find another one. And FF14 has more than enough classes, but nono... Ppl who never touched MNK all the way needs to be catered, nonsense, just nonsense...

Monk and Black Mage are 2 classes that, up until EW, shared the same common problem, and it's around this bit right here.

Nothing was dreadfully wrong with either of them, both have (had) been wallowing in stagnation for expansion after expansion because they were both being held back by mechanics that made them unapproachably difficult for the 'average' player to play.

In BLM's case, it's the AF/UI timers, which make the class so difficult to understand I still, to this day, see people chain casting fire 3 because they don't know better and can't understand the rotation, because the class has no structure, at all.

In Monk's case, it was around 2 things. Positionals, kind of, and Greased Lightning. GL was hyper-punishment on top of already pretty badly failing to play the class correctly. Get rid of that and the classes popularity already saw a jump. Positionals are a love-it or leave-it mechanic.

For a significant chunk of players, positionals are the single biggest reason we don't touch melee DPS classes. Actually, it's the least interesting aspect of any and every melee DPS class. If every melee DPS with positionals had them removed, the game would be a fair bit better off for it.

But the important thing is understanding that you don't just remove something in a vacuum. You can't "just" remove greased lightning or "just" remove positionals. Something needs to take its place. Which Masterful Blitz did. The first time Monk has had anything vaguely approaching a real identity was when they added masterful blitz to the class. Before that it was a fast positional masher with about 20 more oGCDs than it needed. For once, the class has its identity and for once, the class has seen an actual change for the first time since ARR came out that breathes fresh life and popularity into the class. And for the first time since Stormblood came out and ruined Ninja (for me), I can say there's a melee DPS I would pick as my primary. And I hate literally every aspect of Monk's thematics except its actual gameplay, so that says a lot when I say Monk is the only melee DPS I like right now.