A potential reading of The Dead Ends' story.

[LystAP]

Ehh, I don't really see those interpretations at all. I mean, a lot of people have jumped onto the Ra-La civilizations = Ancient Etheirysians' end over the past month, so that one I've seen a half dozen times by now.

I took the Dead Ends to be where FFXIV waxed philosophical about what the authors are seeing in real life as possible dead ends for our own planet (Save the third area).

The first section is about the social reaction to the COVID19 Pandemic.

The second section is about theorized nuclear holocaust.

The last section is definitely meant to be taken on face value as being an analogue for the Ancients. But with a thorough analysis of it, you realize it's merely the civilization that tainted the Meteion hivemind the most. It is a parallel to what she believes she is doing for Etheirys. She is our Ra La. It's not a dead end for the Ancients relating to Zodiark sacrifices. There's no Zodiark sacrifice parallel in it whatsoever. And the Ancient Etheirysians were far from apathetic. It was their extreme affinity for joy, love, togetherness, and peace that caused the Final Days to be such a dramatic wound for them. You should also take notice that it wasn't the Ra-La people who decided when they died, it was Ra La.

Etheirysians already existed in a cycle where when they tired of life they could choose to physically die and be reborn to experience all of life anew.

The third area could also be seen as a possible end for us. What happens after we achieve a perfectly unified and utopian society? Things could go Star Trek, or they could go the other way. We already got voluntary euthanization going on for those afflicted by uncurable aliments, and it's not that much of an additional step to suicide booths.

But irl aside, I believe all the worlds have some relation to Etheirys.

The first world is a representation of overexploitation of resources, both in the present and the past. The Second Umbral Calamity was caused by overexploitation of resources, which forced the people of the world underground where they succumbed to plague. The second world is a representation of Allag and Garlemald's obsession with conquest and control through technology to which the Fourth Umbral Calamity, destruction of the realm by science, could be associated with this destruction as well. I wonder as we go through the Last Dregs quest line, we'll see more mirrors of Hydaelyn/Etheirys's calamities in other worlds.

[YianKutku]

Etheirysians already existed in a cycle where when they tired of life they could choose to physically die and be reborn to experience all of life anew.

That, or claim to achieve godhood and immortality by fusing with dangerous creations.

The stuff happening in Pandemonium is kind of contradictory to the idea of the beings of Etheirys being content with their lives.

[Cilia]

Looks like my old post got delet. Curious as to why.

That, or claim to achieve godhood and immortality by fusing with dangerous creations.

The stuff happening in Pandemonium is kind of contradictory to the idea of the beings of Etheirys being content with their lives.

Maybe; it's implied someone or something was manipulating Hesperos' darker personality traits and forcibly fused him with whatever it was that turned him into a hemitheos.

That said, Erichthonios' emotional pain and the fact Themis (Elidibus) says if the Convocation knew the state of Pandaemonium they'd cut it off from the rest of the world shows that the Ancients weren't quite as perfect as Emet-Selch portrayed them as being. (Viewing the past with rose-tinted glasses is a pretty common failing of the Ancients, though.)

[Kordarion]

(Viewing the past with rose-tinted glasses is a pretty common failing of the Ancients, though.)

It isn't just the ancients in the story though, I get the feeling that the game has been pushing the idea of fighting for the past as being a failing of a group for a long while.

Take for example the Limsan pirates who refuse to move on from piracy and how that has bogged down Limsa's move towards a trading empire, how past grudges on both sides have repeatedly broken the fragile truces between the beast tribes and the Eorzean city states, the long and deeply held hatred on both sides of the Dragonsong war that almost saw the post Heavensward peace broken, the civil unrest in Doma caused by Hien's decision to move past Yotsuyu's brutal rein, the Syndicate's grip on their long held power in the face of Nanamo's attempt at reform leading in part to the Ul'dah revolution, the xenophobia faced by outsiders to Gridania during ARR when the city state was trying to be less isolationist and the Garlean's experiences with racism tainting the view of the world into something equally as racist as what they themselves faced just to name a few.

The conflict that arises from people being unable to accept that the world around them is changing and that they also need to change has been, as far as I can see, a driving factor of the setting since at least ARR and presumably back to 1.0 as well. The ascian/ancient nostalgia goggles are just the most future deciding and influential of said series of conflicts.

[YianKutku]

The conflict that arises from people being unable to accept that the world around them is changing and that they also need to change has been, as far as I can see, a driving factor of the setting since at least ARR and presumably back to 1.0 as well. The ascian/ancient nostalgia goggles are just the most future deciding and influential of said series of conflicts.

At the same time, I also love that FFXIV has the consistent message that while we must move on from the past, we must also remember the past, and not try to forget it. Which is spelled out explicitly again in the EW role quests as you mentioned; just about every one of them deals with moving on from the trauma of past events, but also to face that trauma and accept it for what it is.

There's never a call to forgive and forget. Never forget, and forgiveness is personal and optional, but everyone still needs to move on, while keeping in mind the lessons of the past.

Bringing it back to the thread, the dead civilizations encountered by Meteion seem to have been particularly brittle, possibly due to Meteion's influence, but brittle nonetheless. They couldn't draw on past experiences with their own suffering and sorrow to go "yes, we know, we already went through that, and we learned from it". The Ancient Amaurotines seem to have the same weakness: they don't appear to be well-versed in their own history, and are suspiciously incurious about how their own civilization got to where they are, and what lessons can be learned from the past to be applied to the future.

[Cleretic]

They couldn't draw on past experiences with their own suffering and sorrow to go "yes, we know, we already went through that, and we learned from it".

A fun thing that not everyone finds (including myself) in the quest where you go book-hunting in the Noumenon, there's a book that mentions the concept of the heat death of the universe. The reason Y'shtola and Urianger can grapple so readily with the Ea's anxiety is because Sharlayan did exactly that: they've already grappled with that crisis.

[AziraSyuren]

A fun thing that not everyone finds (including myself) in the quest where you go book-hunting in the Noumenon, there's a book that mentions the concept of the heat death of the universe. The reason Y'shtola and Urianger can grapple so readily with the Ea's anxiety is because Sharlayan did exactly that: they've already grappled with that crisis.

I think it's really interesting that the people of Etherys are the only ones consistently shown to be able to cope with the existential despair inherent in the universe while simultaneously being the only known place in the universe that's literally incomplete and imperfect by design.

[Pofruin]

not the dead ends but the omikrons are a pretty interesting parallel to garleans. they started out as a weak civilization that was constantly victimized by others, and ended up becoming a massively destructive and powerful race that only lived to conquer others by the end

There is more than parallel. Omicron Omega was significant source of technology for Allagans who in turn where source for Garleans. Significant amount of "culture" can be transferred via taking on tools and therefore "problems" those tools are designed to solve. Allagans and Garleans both seem to inherit Omicron culture elements along with their technology.

I think it's really interesting that the people of Etherys are the only ones consistently shown to be able to cope with the existential despair inherent in the universe while simultaneously being the only known place in the universe that's literally incomplete and imperfect by design.

I disagree with this assessment somewhat. Perfection is a nonstarter design element as none of Dead ends nations (or Ancients) where perfect. What was done to Etherians is taken away their ability to push the troubles away. When you cant run from the issue you either deal with it or it crushes you. Putting them away with conveniences or excuses does not eliminate them but instead lets the issues grow to the point where they cannot be pushed aside anymore and are too big to deal with. Thus crushing the people.

[Zohar_Lahar]

I disagree with this assessment somewhat. Perfection is a nonstarter design element as none of Dead ends nations (or Ancients) where perfect. What was done to Etherians is taken away their ability to push the troubles away. When you cant run from the issue you either deal with it or it crushes you. Putting them away with conveniences or excuses does not eliminate them but instead lets the issues grow to the point where they cannot be pushed aside anymore and are too big to deal with. Thus crushing the people.

Yet it was neither claw nor flame, but our very sins, stacked to the heavens where they took root, corrupting its halls

[Ryaz]

At the same time, I also love that FFXIV has the consistent message that while we must move on from the past, we must also remember the past, and not try to forget it. Which is spelled out explicitly again in the EW role quests as you mentioned; just about every one of them deals with moving on from the trauma of past events, but also to face that trauma and accept it for what it is.

There's never a call to forgive and forget. Never forget, and forgiveness is personal and optional, but everyone still needs to move on, while keeping in mind the lessons of the past.

Bringing it back to the thread, the dead civilizations encountered by Meteion seem to have been particularly brittle, possibly due to Meteion's influence, but brittle nonetheless. They couldn't draw on past experiences with their own suffering and sorrow to go "yes, we know, we already went through that, and we learned from it". The Ancient Amaurotines seem to have the same weakness: they don't appear to be well-versed in their own history, and are suspiciously incurious about how their own civilization got to where they are, and what lessons can be learned from the past to be applied to the future.

Yeah, remembering the past is important and actually applies to our lives in the real world as well. You think about all the groups who try to censor bits of our past, both good and bad, because they didn't like what happened. And yes, some of the stuff was horrible. But that's part of our history and we need to know the truth of things because it's the only way we can keep moving forward instead of repeating our mistakes.