What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Ryaz]

I haven’t seen too many people being condescending to people who like the story in my experience and i frequent posts like these fairly often. I think i’ve seen far more of a problem of people trying to write off others’ criticism purely because it’s a forum post or that their opinion is in the minority so it doesn’t matter. Tbf reddit and twitter are essentially the opposite of what you’re equating the forums to. It’s 85% pandering and game worshipping, 10% actual discussion, 5% troll posts. Criticism isn’t really common on those platforms as you’re basically immediately shit down, mass downvoted, or reported as a troll(which i’ve actually had happen and have had posts taken down because people couldn’t handle my criticism). The forums are a much more welcoming place in that regard and is a much more sage space to give opinions on the game than the other two.

I've seen posts praising and not praising on Reddit as well., though you do see praising on those platforms for sure (and all the the streamers I've followed seem to like it so far, but I've only watched a couple or so). And this forum isn't much better about pushing posts away that like the game. As I said, there was one post thanking the devs for a great game, it barely made two pages and was pushed far down the list by a lack of replies. Just because there isn't a downvote button doesn't mean opposing viewpoints don't get silenced here. Saying this place is more welcoming that Twitter or reddit is simply untrue.

And as I've said, if people don't like the game, that's fine. But many people here like to present their opinions as objective facts instead of subjective opinions and write off people who like the story as "being easily emotionally manipulated", which is kinda condescending.

And I suppose I find it kinda odd that so many people claim to love the game, but then criticize every single aspect of it. Again, it reminds me of WoW and would make any potential player think FFXIV is just as bad if not worse than WoW right now.

[Stachiko]

And I suppose I find it kinda odd that so many people claim to love the game, but then criticize every single aspect of it. Again, it reminds me of WoW and would make any potential player think FFXIV is just as bad if not worse than WoW right now.

There's nothing wrong with criticizing something you enjoy.

A hard reality is that FFXIV's story isn't for everyone. (A poll could help prove that point). Telling every soul you meet that the story is amazing, while forgoing the fact that it's not suited for everyone, is a recipe for disaster.

WoW doesn't do this. No one will tell you to go read the lore. No one will tell you the story is amazing. Even in the Arthas days, the story was considered optional.

Shadowlands is different but I don't want to get into that. There are parts of SL I enjoy. There are parts I don't. I still love WoW and can accept parts of it are awful.

At the same time I'm learning to love FFXIV and having fun. My only wish is that others stop trying to push me into things I don't enjoy. Like crafting. I seriously cannot stand crafting in FF.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I've seen posts praising and not praising on Reddit as well., though you do see praising on those platforms for sure (and all the the streamers I've followed seem to like it so far, but I've only watched a couple or so). And this forum isn't much better about pushing posts away that like the game. As I said, there was one post thanking the devs for a great game, it barely made two pages and was pushed far down the list by a lack of replies. Just because there isn't a downvote button doesn't mean opposing viewpoints don't get silenced here. Saying this place is more welcoming that Twitter or reddit is simply untrue.

And as I've said, if people don't like the game, that's fine. But many people here like to present their opinions as objective facts instead of subjective opinions and write off people who like the story as "being easily emotionally manipulated", which is kinda condescending.

And I suppose I find it kinda odd that so many people claim to love the game, but then criticize every single aspect of it. Again, it reminds me of WoW and would make any potential player think FFXIV is just as bad if not worse than WoW right now.

I really don’t think it’s untrue. When i give an opinion on an aspect i liked on twitter or reddit and i’m bombarded by death threats, i definitely find the forums to be a much safer and welcoming place to share my opinion. Although, this isn’t very uncommon with this community. We have the whole scottzone situation to look at of someone giving criticism and the community not being able to handle it. While personal tastes are 100% subjective, there are a lot of issues with the story that are purely objective. It objectively had pacing issues, i don’t think i’ve really seen anyone argue against that. As for the emotional manipulation thing, to be fair imo they did a LOT of it this expansion. Between the anime styled quality time with the scions to them pretending to kill then off etc etc. It’s plain and simple emotional manipulation there lol.

[Lauront]

I've seen posts praising and not praising on Reddit as well., though you do see praising on those platforms for sure (and all the the streamers I've followed seem to like it so far, but I've only watched a couple or so). And this forum isn't much better about pushing posts away that like the game. As I said, there was one post thanking the devs for a great game, it barely made two pages and was pushed far down the list by a lack of replies. Just because there isn't a downvote button doesn't mean opposing viewpoints don't get silenced here.

A topic fading out of a lack of interest is not the same as silencing a viewpoint.

[Rise-chu]

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This is silly. If we didn't care about the game then we wouldn't criticize it. We wouldn't bother forming opinions on it. I don't care about WoW because I played it for two weeks back in 2009 on my brother's account. I don't know the lore, I don't know the characters, I don't have an opinion about the gameplay. I don't really talk about it in depth because it does not matter to me and doesn't have an impact on me except when I'm drawing comparisons like this. So I don't criticize it. The biggest problem with WoW is the behind the scenes behavior of the devs, not the game itself.

In contrast, FFXIV is a fun and engaging game with devs that don't participate in bad behavior behind the scenes. The story is reasonably well told, at least until lately. That means if we see something we don't like and are concerned about how it could impact the future of the game, we're going to voice our criticisms and concerns and frustrations.

It really is that simple. It is quite ridiculous to insist "loving something means that you cannot ever criticize it and if you do then I don't think you loved it at all!"

Why do people keep telling me this story is amazing? Why am I supposed to blindly accept their viewpoint and keep my opinions to myself?

Because of the bizarre and concerning attitudes surrounding the devs, particularly Yoshi-P and Ishikawa.

I respect Yoshi-P and Ishikawa but I'm not one of those weirdo twitter people that makes their entire personality about performatively yelling about loving them. These people make loving the game a central part of their identity, and so they have to go around telling everyone else that we must love it, no matter what. Because if there are players who don't love it, or are unsatisfied with what we see, then these types of people feel like our discontent is an attack on them personally.

FTR this is why I like the OF despite its reputation. Because long form communication is the only way to fight these strange attitudes re: parasocial relationships.

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It sounds unimaginably difficult to be the lead writer on such a huge game and to have so many eyes on you all the time, so tbh I'm glad that she's getting out from under it. That kind of pressure sounds like a nightmare so hopefully she's leaving the position under her own power and with a sense of relief.

If she really did have the "we're combining two expansions into one, SIKE" thing sprung on her at the last minute then uhhh yeah, that is a very questionable decision made by Yoshi-P. At best. I'm not sure that Endwalker could have powered two whole expansions but I do think it would have benefitted from being spread out over multiple patches as per tradition. I have not read or seen anything that gives me any insight into why this strange decision was made to jampack so much story into one patch and put unnecessary stress on everyone involved. Sheesh.