The Reasoning behind The Sundering? (*6.0 Endwalker Spoilers*)

[Rosenstrauch]

Let's say that we live in a universe where free will exists. If that's the case, the entire timeline doesn't exist from start to finish its entirety, because otherwise we're just making decisions on rails.

Well, let me stop you right there. First off, we're not talking about our universe. We're talking about a work of fiction. If you wanted to get strictly literal, the characters in a work of fiction have no free will at all because their choices are determined by the author(s) of such fiction. The only stories where this isn't true would be, off the top of my head, the results of roleplaying between a group of individuals.

Second, far more intelligent and well-read people than either of us have been debating this specific philosophical topic for millennia. I sincerely doubt either of us will have anything new to add to that conversation—Hell, I had to look up terms just to find what those systems of belief even are, because I am not a philosophy major. The worldview that disagrees with the one you're positing here is called compatibilism, by the way.

Thirdly, the impression I'm getting from your post is that the writers must adhere to your personal philosophical worldview, or else the story is written incorrectly. I, meanwhile, am doing my best not to judge the contents of the story by my worldview at all—an arguably self-defeating effort, I'll admit, since the only perspective I have on the story is my own. But that's my preference when it comes to discussing the events of a work of fiction. And the reality of a work of fiction is that each and every time travel rule is up to the author's discretion, not ours. Beyond outright asking them, the only way we have to determine what rules are in play is to observe the story for ourselves.

And that's what I've done. If we ever have an expansion where we fight the Time Devourer within the Tesseract/Darkness Beyond Time, where discarded timelines settle like detritus on the ocean floor, then I'll accept the existence of discarded timelines. Until then, they remain an unfalsifiable possibility, and insisting that they must exist or the story doesn't make sense is just silly.

[Veloran]

Well, let me stop you right there. First off, we're not talking about our universe. We're talking about a work of fiction.

I think that was the royal "we". As in, the "we" of those in-universe. I agree that the notion of predestination undermines many of the themes presented throughout the game, and that setup has about as many issues and implications for the story as we've seen as that of a multiverse/many-worlds interpretation of time.

If we ever have an expansion where we fight the Time Devourer within the Tesseract/Darkness Beyond Time, where discarded timelines settle like detritus on the ocean floor,

Honestly given the sheer abuse of time travel within the narrative that probably should be the next saga.

[Lauront]

I think that was the royal "we". As in, the "we" of those in-universe. I agree that the notion of predestination undermines many of the themes presented throughout the game, and that setup has about as many issues and implications for the story as we've seen as that of a multiverse/many-worlds interpretation of time.

Yep, give it a few expansions and we'll be fighting the Arbiters of Fate or something similar. Maybe they can borrow some ideas from 7R for it.

Determinism itself as an idea is often rooted in the notion that it is impossible based on physical (and any other derived) laws to explain something like free will in humans (or any other living being.) That, along with consciousness, remain as exceedingly thorny philosophical issues because of that constraint. XIV on the other hand has immaterial souls, about which we know very little, beyond that they have an aetheric composition and perhaps some other irreducible aspects, to which dynamis might relate, so it's easier to introduce free will as a concept - on the other hand, it is also that much easier to introduce some thing that rigidly ensures certain outcomes for whatever purpose. But with that all said, if anything our universe is the readier candidate for deterministic explanations than a setting with rather elusive things like souls.

That preordainment from beginning to end is part of what I don't like about some of the theories hinging on the timeline playing out in a specific way irrespective of what actions take place and correcting itself to ensure that outcome is arrived at. We'll see how the writers address this, if they deign to.

[Lyth]

...

No. I'm simply illustrating how your explanation hinges on events (i.e. G'raha's alteration to the timeline, our return to Elpis) as having always been destined to have happened, irrespective of any conscious choices made by the characters. Which is certainly possible, but I wanted to be sure that this was actually the philosophical stance that you were taking. I'm simply observing your starting premises. There's no need to worry about getting pulled into a Wikipedia-sourced internet debate on causality to defend your claims. It is possible to explain the timeline without events being fated to occur, but it requires that Venat gain her knowledge of the future only duriing the events of this expansion i.e. it's not 'all according to plan'.

I think it's worthwhile to attempt to piece together the bits that we have on how spacetime magic works in universe given that it's been used an awful lot in the past two expansions, it has ties to Allag and shard travel, and it at least visually appears to be similar to Azem's own signature magic. I think that there's enough detail from the in-game lore for this to be a hard magic system, and I'd like to know what the rules actually are.

[EaraGrace]

No. I'm simply illustrating how your explanation hinges on events (i.e. G'raha's alteration to the timeline, our return to Elpis) as having always been destined to have happened, irrespective of any conscious choices made by the characters. Which is certainly possible, but I wanted to be sure that this was actually the philosophical stance that you were taking. I'm simply observing your starting premises. There's no need to worry about getting pulled into a Wikipedia-sourced internet debate on causality to defend your claims. It is possible to explain the timeline without events being fated to occur, but it requires that Venat gain her knowledge of the future only duriing the events of this expansion i.e. it's not 'all according to plan'.

I think it's worthwhile to attempt to piece together the bits that we have on how spacetime magic works in universe given that it's been used an awful lot in the past two expansions, it has ties to Allag and shard travel, and it at least visually appears to be similar to Azem's own signature magic. I think that there's enough detail from the in-game lore for this to be a hard magic system, and I'd like to know what the rules actually are.

I will argue that the existence of the future doesn’t negate free will. So long as the ability to do otherwise exists and we have the choice to follow our desires, then we have free will.