What are your crazy theories after Endwalker

[Doragan]

I think my top theory is that when we'll end up visiting the 13th, the sundered Azem from that world will end up being an (perhaps iredeemable) antagonist, who already escaped the shard to go to other ones.
We also end up meeting them whole at some point in the past. And they're mute just like us. (Even if Ardbert wasn't)

I wouldn't be surprised to see a femHroth show up by 6.3/4/5 too.

[Rulakir]

I thought there might be a chance the WoL could end up merging with their soul shard from the 13th, but with EW pushing sundered > all so hard I have my doubts.

[kaynide]

Something I pondered today…. Assume we eventually do go to the 13th shard with the intention of restoring it.

Should we? As far as we know there are voidsent that have intelligence/agency not unlike ourselves. Do we have the right to destroy their world in order to bring it back to a way we want? Wouldn’t that make us just as bad as the Ascians?

Assuming we can fix their problem of being aether-starved, there is no reason to think we couldn’t coexist peacefully.

This is an interesting problem I think the game could explore; essentially flipping roles where we are in the shoes of the Ascians.

[Rosenstrauch]

Well, it's just speculation at this point, but here goes...

The Akadaemeia Anyder dungeon, along with some tidbits from Amaurot (the location), directly linked Lahabrea to Phantomology, which in turn was the study that gave way to the creation of Guardian Forces (and later primals). While Fandaniel played an important role in Zodiark's creation, I've no doubt that Lahabrea had an equally important role in that.
Post-Aitiascope/2nd Trial, the Loporrits reveal that the rituals used to summon primals were deliberately modified by the Ascians, such that the summoned primal would be compelled to spread their influence via tempering. While the way this played out depended on the primal, it's suggested that a primal would have to be on the same power scale as Zodiark to temper others just by existing.
Finally, when we encounter Hesperos, his devotion to Lahabrea is warped to the point of fanaticism. Just like the majority of the tempered we've run into. He even kills himself to cover up what's been happening in Pandaemonium, inadvertently implicating Lahabrea because of that loyalty.

With all of this combined, I believe that—by the end of Pandaemonium—we'll learn that Lahabrea is directly responsible for both tempering as a standardized concept and specifically Zodiark tempering the Convocation. But that's a pretty reasonable guess, I'd say. So here's the crazy part: By the end of Pandaemonium, it will be revealed that a chain of events have been set into motion that result in a divergent timeline—one in which appropriate checks are in place to ensure Zodiark can't/won't temper anyone. As a result, the conflict growing between Amaurot's people post-Final Days will not be beyond reconciliation and the Sundering will be averted, giving the Ancients their chance at a brighter future.

It's as much wishful thinking as a crazy theory, really.

[Alleluia]

-snip-

I think the exact same thing regarding Pandaemonium, tempering, Zodiark and Lahabrea.

I am with you in the wishful thinking camp that there may still be some kind of divergence of timelines. They seem hesitant to outright state that the timeline we've seen in-game is a loop, for some reason. Hydaelyn talking about "and now the rivers of time converge" in the trial, for instance, was odd. I mean, if it was truly a loop, then how are there plural rivers of time that have to converge? A loop is one timeline.

Also, hasn't Hydaelyn just always known the events in Elpis were a thing? And yet she seems to pause for a moment before recognizing that the events occurred when she says that line. That might just be me reading into her pauses/tone/body language too much, but still.

There's also just generally a lot of caveats said by several characters regarding how "time travel is uncertain" and Venat saying that the future isn't certain till it happens to us after the boys got their memories wiped. Like, yeah that's her being hopeful, I suppose, but it also feels like its the writers leaving open a door. At least, to me. But then we see everything play out exactly how it did anyway (minus creative liberties with the particulars of the sundering, cus I guess its supposed to be a dramatized summary not an actual flashback?). Rendering the hope she had specifically of averting that future entirely moot. And Hades' insistence he still doesn't believe it'll happen before he hedges and tells us not to squander his legacy. Like... okay, their hopes are just that and not all hopes come to fruition, irl. This is true. But the fact this is a story, not real life, makes me feel like the writers wouldn't put that uncertainty in there if they weren't going to have a payoff.

So... yeah. lol I consider it a crazy theory that there will still end up being some timeline where the ancients survive, but I'd still like it to occur.

[kaynide]

I can’t remember specifics, but I was under the impression that Zodiark and Hydaelyn did not temper people. I can’t remember where that was explained.

That said, everything else sounds very plausible and I believe Lahabrea is absolutely behind the tempering mechanism. Maybe he made it in response to the disagreement he faced when he proposed the 3rd round of sacrifices. A way to force conformity.

[Alleluia]

I can’t remember specifics, but I was under the impression that Zodiark and Hydaelyn did not temper people. I can’t remember where that was explained.

Livingway says Zodiark could be summoned without us feeling more than a "tug" on our aether. She never says that we'd be tempered by something of his scale. And I'd think she would have, if that were so; given the context of that conversation.

And yet, Emet outright says in Shadowbringers that Zodiark tempered "us". By "us", I assume he means the people who summoned him ie the convocation members and their underlings who were present (if any). But that is technically an assumption, so the writers could come back and claim he tempered the whole city when he was summoned if they want since they've never specified.

(Side note, if Fandaniel is any indication, we at least now have confirmation that tempering definitely does not stick with a soul once they get put thru the reincarnation rinse cycle. Which is cool.)


Hydaelyn definitely doesn't seem to temper people, which we now know is apparently perfectly within bounds of how primal summoning can work. Before EW, that was up for debate.

[Shookbeast]

I’m currently playing NewGame+ for just the ARR stuff (it’s been a while).

Crazy Theory: We actually DO go back in time and give Cid his goggles.

[Iscah]

I agree it seems very plausible that Lahabrea is responsible for introducing tempering, but I don't think we'll be handling a split timeline again. The memory crystal has to somehow independently make its way from Pandæmonium to our present, and that can't happen if we only fix things in an alternate timeline.

(Well, technically we could fix things in timeline A while the people of timeline B (connected to ours) are doomed and send us the crystal distress signal, but that just makes things even more complicated.)

Hydaelyn's talk about time "converging" seems more like she's talking about the two elements of the time loop starting in Elpis have met up. Our paths "converged" back then, we passed the information to Venat, and we went our separate ways – her through the slow path of millennia and us travelling back to where we began. Those two threads join up again when we meet her in full knowledge of what happened back then.

[vormela]

As a result, the conflict growing between Amaurot's people post-Final Days will not be beyond reconciliation and the Sundering will be averted, giving the Ancients their chance at a brighter future.

It's as much wishful thinking as a crazy theory, really.

I love this and want it so badly to happen! I love them so much and to help them would be to fall in line with Louisoix's teachings.

But then on some level the ancients have survived, even though they are not as powerful as their complete forms.

Their being artists/creators is a passion all the civilizations still share (Allaghans, Garlemald specifically, as we face some reckoning about the fate of Garlemald and Hades' legacy). Their drive to accurately name and categorize everything still happens (Thancred realizing in EW what a powerful act naming Ryne was, then us going back to meet the taxonomists in Elpis was a really cool parallel). We still have grapes that look somewhat grapelike in La Noscea. Elpis sure looks a lot like Labyrinthos. People are still napping in the nap room. Creations are still escaping. They lived, just like the people now.

One of the ways I see them as being different is that, though they are curious, they won't leave the lab. They see it as a job for familiars. Azem seemed to be the only role related to studying the geography (human, ecological, geological...all summed up nicely in the story of the volcano) of the world. They need to do some field work and reconnaissance. It is one thing Hades and others admired so much about their version of Azem.

That is just something innately human that they lacked. If they survived, it makes me wonder if they would be inspired by peoples of the future to go outside their laboratories more often. And maybe more than just surviving the final days they would develop in that way. It seems like the societies in current times are a lot more Azem-like in their need for exploration, and their society could be improved in that way!

I really love the ancients. So much. I just did the Elpis guide quests yesterday where you hang out with them and share observations about things like mourning the dead and so this is fresh in my mind.