What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

The reason has never changed, so I'm not sure why you're asking. They want to bring back the ones who were sacrificed precisely because they were sacrificed. They want to bring back their families and friends.

Yep. Which, in itself, is completely understandable - and they seemingly had the means to do as much. It's why the final zone felt so cheap to me. On one hand, literally everybody else is told to 'move on' but when the Warrior of Light loses his companions, they're brought back from the dead. In Y'shtola's case it isn't the first or even second time, either.

[SDaemon]

I mean, i'm not saying she wouldn't be proud, but i feel like Japanese are perfectionistic in their work. So, im not sure how Ishikawa-san missed the part where venat knew world was gonna end and just decided to place hope on the WoL because we're cool. It is silly writing IMHO.
Meteion and everything else was fine and acceptable, but the way venat was portrayed as the "knower of all" but just kinda existed as the crystal because timeloop was weird. They could've greatly improved the storyline by allowed her memories to get wiped and make hydaelyn of her own volition. Unless I missed something. But still, I don't think that would've solved the issue of the convocation summoning zodiark..

How would Venat have known about the threat of Meteion if her memories were wiped as well? I also don't see the issue with her placing her hopes on the WoL given we literally recant to her about all the world ending threats and dangers we've overcome up to that point. Placing my faith in a ridiculously powerful warrior capable of overcoming challenges and despair again and again seems a pretty safe bet to me when facing a foe who wields despair as a weapon.

[Theodric]

I also don't see the issue with her placing her hopes on the WoL given we literally recant to her about all the world ending threats and dangers we've overcome up to that point. Placing my faith in a ridiculously powerful warrior capable of overcoming challenges and despair again and again seems a pretty safe bet to me when facing a foe who wields despair as a weapon.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want someone wiping out my friends, family, neighbours, cat and literally every single person I have ever known or met because some deluded individual wanted to become a 'supreme deity' and chose to sell out both her race and civilisation for the sake of a time traveller who she had known for less than a day.

Each to their own, though!

[SDaemon]

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want someone wiping out my friends, family, neighbours, cat and literally every single person I have ever known or met because some deluded individual wanted to become a 'supreme deity' and chose to sell out both her race and civilisation for the sake of a time traveller who she had known for less than a day.

Each to their own, though!

Ah yes because becoming "a supreme deity" was completely Venat's endgame for summoning Hydealyn, must have missed that tidbit in the story. /shrug

[Theodric]

Ah yes because becoming "a supreme deity" was completely Venat's endgame for summoning Hydealyn, must have missed that tidbit in the story. /shrug

It wasn't her primary motivation but that's what she referred to herself as, after lying repeatedly about the circumstances surrounding the downfall of her people, leading others to falsely believe that Zodiark was an evil, power-hungry entity and inflicting untold suffering upon many individuals without their consent. Furthermore despite fawning over the player character's memories she still robbed her own people not only of their lives but the connections they had to loved ones as well as their memories.

It's more explicit in the French localisation but Venat herself, as Hydaelyn, admits that she can't really think of an excuse for what she did. Though in the English localisation, Venat concedes that there was no kindness or justice in the act.

In other words, people are absolutely free to consider her to be monstrous and treacherous if they see fit. As many more would, I suspect, if it were their loved ones that had been screwed over by her actions.

[SDaemon]

It wasn't her primary motivation but that's what she referred to herself as, after lying repeatedly about the circumstances surrounding the downfall of her people, leading others to falsely believe that Zodiark was an evil, power-hungry entity and inflicting untold suffering upon many individuals without their consent. Furthermore despite fawning over the player character's memories she still robbed her own people not only of their lives but the connections they had to loved ones as well as their memories.

It's more explicit in the French localisation but Venat herself, as Hydaelyn, admits that she can't really think of an excuse for what she did. Though in the English localisation, Venat concedes that there was no kindness or justice in the act.

In other words, people are absolutely free to consider her to be monstrous and treacherous if they see fit. As many more would, I suspect, if it were their loved ones that had been screwed over by her actions.

I'm not calling her justice or good or any of that. crimsonwitch made a comment that it was silly writing to bet on the WoL in that situation and I disagree. The situation at hand makes perfect sense to me why she would place her hopes on the WoL. Yes, she refers to herself as a supreme deity because that is effectively what she has become, but that doesn't give any real insight to her motivation toward summoning Hydealyn. I don't believe Hydealyn was anymore morally justified sacrificing a fraction of her people to sunder the world and give the sundered mankind a means of overcoming Meteion than Zodiark was for sacrificing his followers to save the ancient world.

[Rulakir]

How would Venat have known about the threat of Meteion if her memories were wiped as well? I also don't see the issue with her placing her hopes on the WoL given we literally recant to her about all the world ending threats and dangers we've overcome up to that point. Placing my faith in a ridiculously powerful warrior capable of overcoming challenges and despair again and again seems a pretty safe bet to me when facing a foe who wields despair as a weapon.

I wouldn't say a safe bet at all. Her plan outright failed in the 8UC timeline where the WoL dies. Plus, to get back to the WoL she met in Elpis required multiple rejoinings to occur. It makes the events of HW and ShB even more shady if you consider she was purposely holding off on saving the First because it needed to be rejoined in one timeline and come close to it in another.

[SDaemon]

I wouldn't say a safe bet at all. Her plan outright failed in the 8UC timeline where the WoL dies. Plus, to get back to the WoL she met in Elpis required multiple rejoinings to occur. It makes the events of HW and ShB even more shady if you consider she was purposely holding off on saving the First because it needed to be rejoined in one timeline and come close to it in another.

You're assuming she is cognizant of what goes on in other timelines divergent to the one she exists in and understands all the branching timeways. The way I see it, the Hydealyn of the 8UC timeline for all we know made the exact same choices as our Hydealyn up to the point their WoL died because to them they were in the only timeline. Or how would you explain 8UC timleine Hydealyn knowing they are 8UC timeline Hydealyn?

[linayar]

Death may not be the only solution, but clearly keeping them alive is adding more problems.

What problems?

Considering the whole ultima thule plot point completely contradicts the theme of the expansion. I’ve stated it many times but it’s true and it’s just not right lol.

How so?

Also, it’s arguable for your former point. Considering there’s always been some bias towards Hydaelyn, it would’ve been nice for once for there to be equality. Especially since they want to say time and time again not to judge a book by its cover. I’m still waiting for us to get some minions of the antagonists at any rate. Where’s our Emet,Hythlo,Zodiark,Elidibus minions hm? Seems there’s even some bias in regards to that. Venat gets hers for genociding the world, we should get some for the ascians then.

Not judging a book by its cover doesn't mean all books have to be treated the same. On the contrary, it means even if they get different treatment, you can still appreciate the book that lacks the "appreciation" that you think it deserves. Equality has nothing to do with whether or not you should judge a book by its cover.

We are Azem, cause Azem is a Title, that Emet-Selch gave the WoL during the Fight with Elidibus.

I wasn't talking about the title. Venat was Azem too, and we are not Venat.

Also, just because a portion of the community enjoyed the story doesn’t mean there aren’t problems with it. Considering a lot of those people are the same ones who are saying don’t look too into it.

On the other hand, just because a portion of the community has a problem with the story doesn't mean everyone else should either.

And there is indeed such a thing as looking too deep into something that you can view something harmless to be an issue.

Lets turn the question around. Why are you all so adamant that no one should die? I mean specifics, like addressing my reason why you need occasional deaths.

Eh, personally, I am not adamant that no one should die. I believe that's the writer's call to make, and they have made their choice. I do not agree that anyone has to die for the story to be "real," but I have no problem with anyone dying.

Yep. Which, in itself, is completely understandable - and they seemingly had the means to do as much. It's why the final zone felt so cheap to me. On one hand, literally everybody else is told to 'move on' but when the Warrior of Light loses his companions, they're brought back from the dead. In Y'shtola's case it isn't the first or even second time, either.

Why are you ignoring the method by which the Ascians are using to bring back their dead? That completely differentiates it from what happened to us, and only enhances the fact that it's not their desire to bring back their dead that we have a problem with.

[Kozh]

The reason has never changed, so I'm not sure why you're asking. They want to bring back the ones who were sacrificed precisely because they were sacrificed. They want to bring back their families and friends.

I was asking because it's been years since I play ShB, and I'm half-sure I misremember things by unintentionally mixing up the details -_-

Better ask and be corrected than staying mistaken, amiright