What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[KizuyaKatogami]

Their sole measure shouldn't be based solely on the given fact of what they do this expansion, or have done this expansion, but their planned endeavours for her going forward. Which if she's planning to work on a method for traversing the reflections is pretty darn significant. Given how late their eluded deaths were, then beyond that immediate point none of them really served any significant purpose anyway. So in reality they could have killed off any one of the scions. Besides the more they done and contributed up towards that point would have made for a much more impactful and surprising death.

I mean, i disagree, i think it should be measured that way because why have a character who has no plot relevance? All for a "maybe in the future"? Like how maybe in the future theyll finally bring back her life draining plot?If a character isnt doing anything for the plot, then at that point theyre stale and need to be replaced. Its just another part of the whole plot armor bias situation. She did nothing for the plot this expansion, why have her continue to stick around when that position can be given to another character that could actually have some worth and relevance.They did it for lyse. She did what she had to do and they wrote her out when she wasnt contributing much. The same should go for yshtola. She contributed very little.

[Kaurhz]

I mean, i disagree, i think it should be measured that way because why have a character who has no plot relevance? All for a "maybe in the future"? Like how maybe in the future theyll finally bring back her life draining plot?If a character isnt doing anything for the plot, then at that point theyre stale and need to be replaced. Its just another part of the whole plot armor bias situation. She did nothing for the plot this expansion, why have her continue to stick around when that position can be given to another character that could actually have some worth and relevance.They did it for lyse. She did what she had to do and they wrote her out when she wasnt contributing much. The same should go for yshtola. She contributed very little.

Oh didn't see this little knack. But respectfully, I disagree here. A character with no or little plot relevance is no meaningful death at all. Except death for deaths own sake. Deaths need to be meaningful. Just take a comparison between the deaths of Haurchefant, Papalymo and Moenbryda. They all died giving their lives for something they believed in. Or to stop or prevent something. Now take the comparison with the Satrap of Radz-at-han. Dude got eaten alive and practically nobody bats an eyelid barring the simple fact of we're a god-killing, ascian-slaying machine so we should have done more. Killing characters off for the sake of killing them off is very meaningless death and just bad writing. - But I guess this would be a matter of opinionated debate.

I just feel like the argument being made could apply to practically any given scion, really. On the other side of the coin, I could just see a conversation such as this in an alternative universe wherein someone dies and then people complain that the death wasn't impactful or meaningful enough.

[Y2K21]

Oh didn't see this little knack. But respectfully, I disagree here. A character with no or little plot relevance is no meaningful death at all. Except death for deaths own sake. Deaths need to be meaningful. Just take a comparison between the deaths of Haurchefant, Papalymo and Moenbryda. They all died giving their lives for something they believed in. Or to stop or prevent something. Now take the comparison with the Satrap of Radz-at-han. Dude got eaten alive and practically nobody bats an eyelid barring the simple fact of we're a god-killing, ascian-slaying machine so we should have done more. Killing characters off for the sake of killing them off is very meaningless death and just bad writing. - But I guess this would be a matter of opinionated debate.

I just feel like the argument being made could apply to practically any given scion, really.

The difference between a Scion dying and a "literally who" character dying is that the impact upon the player and story is much higher for the prior -- and usually drives more of the narrative/shifts narrative. Thats why things like the previous three have been impactful as the story was impacted upon their sacrifices (which is kind of the whole point of that dungeon in EW).

If you have an entire build up by Yoshi-P saying "anyone could die" with a story focused around the apocalypse -- with the only tear jerking is showing either brand new characters or faceless NPCs dying, then no one gives a shit.

[Kaurhz]

The difference between a Scion dying and a "literally who" character dying is that the impact upon the player and story is much higher for the prior -- and usually drives more of the narrative/shifts narrative. Thats why things like the previous three have been impactful as the story was impacted upon their sacrifices (which is kind of the whole point of that dungeon in EW).

Sure I'll give that point, but the circumstances surrounding each of the appointed deaths weren't exactly just "Oh hey, death.". Like I said (and I'll expand), if Y'shtola had taken the place of the Satrap, then this discussion would not be about the absence of the death surrounding a Scion, but simply how anticlimactic said death was. Killing off Y'shtola because she presented little narrative relevance current would be meaningless. By contrast, Y'shtola dying trying to, or actually bringing about travel between reflections would be meaningful. A character death should be meaningful both because of what they believed, the circumstance surrounding their death, and not simply just because entirely of who that character is.

[Y2K21]

Sure I'll give that point, but the circumstances surrounding each of the appointed deaths weren't exactly just "Oh hey, death.". Like I said (and I'll expand), if Y'shtola had taken the place of the Satrap, then this discussion would not be about the absence of the death surrounding a Scion, but simply how anticlimactic said death was.

No one is saying they should kill them off for lulz -- we are saying that there are enough Scions with completed story arcs where an impactful death to SELL the story of the expansion is a useful tool (see Papalymo, Ysayle,). You build the story to this moment and pay it off. You have an entire narrative built around "anyone could transform and die" with no one of note doing either.

[Kaurhz]

No one is saying they should kill them off for lulz -- we are saying that there are enough Scions with completed story arcs where an impactful death to SELL the story of the expansion is a useful tool (see Papalymo, Ysayle,). You build the story to this moment and pay it off. You have an entire narrative built around "anyone could transform and die" with no one of note doing either.

At this point I'm not even entirely sure if we're disagreeing.. My point was inferring the very point in your post (emboldened). On the latter point, Any given character can transform and die, but given the history of each individual scion I hardly find that the scions would just simply roll over in the face of despair. People only transformed in the face of despair. This narrative works well for less substantial characters, but for characters such as the scions? It's very anticlimactic