No Public Beta Testing: good bad for the game?

[Velnora]

These are design issues, not bugs. The PTR is there to find bugs so that they don't make it into release, not for huge sweeping job changes. Those kinds of things are done in patches. Making such mass changes in the PTR would likely create more bugs and delay the release date. Eventually they'll have to release the patch and people will still complain because things aren't quite balanced.

PTR's exist not only to find bugs, but to test implementations of new features/systems.

[MintnHoney]

The issue with this is that it assumes that all feedback is good feedback.

Indeed, I'm of the belief that all feedback is good feedback, even if you can't or won't always use the feedback provided.
What I'm assuming, actually, is that there's someone, perhaps (but not necessarily) a QA Engineer, or a group of such people, who are capable enough to either parse through and utilize the feedback to further their goals or "mission" for the software in question, or who are capable of organizing and providing specific tests that must be undertaken by subjects in both a controlled and uncontrolled capacity.

To be honest, I believe that it would be better (and, frankly, prudent) for a neutral 3rd party group of professionals to be consulted instead. In-house testing, especially in large companies, has a tendency to just be a circle-jerk experience, especially in companies that have issues with standards surrounding seniority.
That doesn't mean there isn't a place for public testing, however; for example, public test realms would allow them to potentially determine certain issues like what we've had emergency maintenances for since the game released (and we've had a few), determine job balance and performance issues when they actually hit the playerbase (and isn't being tested in a controlled environment with company-approved or company-dictated behavior) prior to the official release, among other things, to help keep a smooth experience. Both the application and expectation of what can be tested should be kept in mind when proposing a public test, as you're asking for the average (and sometimes the below and above average) layman to provide a sample of data to work with.

But that's just my opinion.

[Deceptus]

PTR's exist not only to find bugs, but to test implementations of new features/systems.

This right here.

As I highlighted before there has been more than one system change where it was announced and the playerbase immediately knew it was a bad idea and was vocal about it.

The FFXIV devs still released them in their bad state only to have to walk them back later. Earlier detection is ALWAYS better. More relevant data is ALWAYS better.

An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure.

[Kaurhz]

Personally I don't like knowing everything beforehand. But utilising beta testing would allow developers to get direct feedback and data on their own classes and how well they perform, which in many circumstances could allow for players to present feedback on certain design flaws, or what they may deem as a flaw. It's essentially allowing for some fairly rudimentary testing at what would essentially be 0 employment cost.

For example, what they could do.. Instead of ruining the trials for example, and potentially story therein, they could give a very baseline testing ground, but to also upscale some older fights, both savage and extremes, which would allow them to get nice data, particularly when you factor in job synergies.

The only concern behind such changes though, and as is the case with any form of testing is.. Whether the feedback could then be fed back to both the designers and the developers in a due frame to allow them to make the necessary recalculations and adjustments based on feedback. In essence.. Having the ability to test something thoroughly, and then having the time to make all necessary adjustments, changes and recalculation is an entirely different slugfest.

[GrizzlyTank]

It's a good thing. There was far too much advance knowledge in WoW and in some circles expectations that you'd play on the PTR to practice for the actual release version.

I much prefer SE's *solid* in-house QC and no-spoiler launches.

Nothing more fun joining a raid on "release" only to be met with the expectation that you have watch detailed ptr videos of them.

[Larirawiel]

This right here.

As I highlighted before there has been more than one system change where it was announced and the playerbase immediately knew it was a bad idea and was vocal about it.

The FFXIV devs still released them in their bad state only to have to walk them back later. Earlier detection is ALWAYS better. More relevant data is ALWAYS better.

An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure.

This is true. But the question is, is a PTR a good tool to detect problems earlier? In my experience, no it is not. Because in most cases players cannot be good testers. Maybe they will find randomly some "fall through the world at some position on the map"-like bugs or "tooltip says 30% increase but in real it is only 15%"-bugs. And the last category of bugs you can catch with unit tests. You can only be a good tester if you know how the results should look alike in the end. But players cannot know it when the content and the mechanics are new.

Cheers

[Quintessa]

I'm fine with how they do things in regards to this because if something major breaks they will fix it right away, which is more than I can say about SEGA and PWE heh.

[IdowhatIwant]

Nothing more fun joining a raid on "release" only to be met with the expectation that you have watch detailed ptr videos of them.

You can create your own group, and you can opt out of being part of the ptr.

With that being said though it really falls into the hands of the developers as to how useful this would be vs it being a waste of resources and time. It could be useful in other aspects as well such as server stress testing which may or may not have helped with this recent expansion launch.

If you take blizzard for example they have the PTR and Beta test but hardly use feedback provided from these tests. So it becomes rather a pointless implementation.

[Alleluia]

Maybe a public test server for just new jobs could be useful. Like, it has existing content only, but new jobs implemented, with the ability to just autocomplete class quests, if they exist.

But public testing for new content? No. Not remotely necessary and also would be a problem with spoilers. Definitely good we don't have it, imo.

You can create your own group, and you can opt out of being part of the ptr.

Blind on release is the current baseline experience for players and it should remain such. You shouldn't have to create a special group to experience brand new content without other players' expectations weighing you down. That's the advantage of the current setup, everyone is on the same page at the start.

[Bsrking5]

Naw, I'll pass. Don't need a bunch of players beta testing content to just leak all the "new" content on "release". Works better for FPS or other games with minimum story. Not all feedback is good feedback and can lead to broke and disjointed story/gameplay.