What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Divinemights]

Just as theres been complaints with 14’s lore for the past years. One of the things you literally bashed WoW’s story for is something 14 did this very expansion, so why the double standard?

Refresh me a bit because it have been years for FF12, which main playble character you are referring dead at the end? Vaan? Ashelia? Balthier? Fran? Penelo? Vossler? Please don't tell me you are ferring to Reks and Ralser because they are plot device characters, not main characters.

Shadow from FF6? All of sudden he decides to suicide there is sure out of no where. Are you counting that?

FF Type O at beginning you already knew everyone are going to die and you are just playing to see how they died. I don't see this is a good example.

Which main character died at FF5? I don't recall any 4 main died at the end. Please do not count those temporary characters. They are always considered as plot devices.

[Theodric]

If the writing is truly so brilliant, then surely the writers can be trusted to kill off a major character from time to time on the level of Raubahn or Y'shtola rather than limiting it to minor one scene wonder NPC's or secondary figures that weren't all that important in the first place or who have already 'died' once already such as Minfilia and Ardbert.

The latter of which, incidentally, is one of my favourite characters - though I'm not oblivious to the trend of making antagonists sympathetic and tragic only to kill them off and pretend as if the Warrior of Light has endured anything remotely close to what his opponents have gone through.

The idea that death isn't needed to tell a good story often strikes me as something pushed by those who stand to benefit from keeping the status quo intact. Most people aren't willing to let go of their 'faves' and a big problem in modern storytelling resides within the mob that will push back at any suggestion that maybe if a threat is to be taken seriously, it should actually be a threat.

Though if we concede that the Scions are 'untouchable' then many - myself included - will simply continue to roll their eyes next time they decide to drool and scream over each other to inform us all of how they have supposedly lost 'so much'.

I'd like some consistency and commitment. As it stands, the 'themes' are all over the place. The sophistry about needing to 'move on' from loss wears thin once one considers that the characters stating as much have lost maybe a handful of people whereas those they're lecturing have lost nearly every single person that they've ever known.

[Divinemights]

If the writing is truly so brilliant, then surely the writers can be trusted to kill off a major character from time to time on the level of Raubahn or Y'shtola rather than limiting it to minor one scene wonder NPC's or secondary figures that weren't all that important in the first place or who have already 'died' once already such as Minfilia and Ardbert.

Though if we concede that the Scions are 'untouchable' then many - myself included - will simply continue to roll their eyes next time they decide to drool and scream over each other to inform us all of how they have supposedly lost 'so much'.

Please be noted I never said FF14 Enderwalker is untouchable and I am only strongly disagree that you need unnecessary artificial death for dramatic effect. I believed the main theme of Endwalker is to show humanity finally have the strength walk on their own and do not need an entity to carry them. This is strongly showed in Venat's speech before she sundered the world into 14 pieces. This story was never about apocalypses.

[ReynTime]

Refresh me a bit because it have been years for FF12, which main playble character you are referring dead at the end? Vaan? Ashelia? Balthier? Fran? Penelo? Vossler? Please don't tell me you are ferring to Reks and Ralser because they are plot device characters, not main characters.

Shadow from FF6? All of sudden he decides to suicide there is sure out of no where. Are you counting that?

FF Type O at beginning you already knew everyone are going to die and you are just playing to see how they died. I don't see this is a good example.

Which main character died at FF5? I don't recall any 4 main died at the end. Please do not count those temporary characters. They are always considered as plot devices.

"These deaths do not count because I said so".
And if you don't even know about Galuf in FFV I don't think you have grounds to stand on in this debate.

[Divinemights]

"These deaths do not count because I said so".
And if you don't even know about Galuf in FFV I don't think you have grounds to stand on in this debate.

I played original Japanese version and Galuf was never considered as main cast.
He is a character will be substitute since beginning
Old game used to have a beautiful booklet, just FYI

[DBriggs304]

Please be noted I never said FF14 Enderwalker is untouchable and I am only strongly disagree that you need unnecessary artificial death for dramatic effect. I believed the main theme of Endwalker is to show humanity finally have the strength walk on their own and do not need an entity to carry them. This is strongly showed in Venat's speech before she sundered the world into 14 pieces. This story was never about apocalypses.

This.
Glad I'm not the only one who felt the feeling was humanity is on thier own now and now a new adventure begins.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Please be noted I never said FF14 Enderwalker is untouchable and I am only strongly disagree that you need unnecessary artificial death for dramatic effect. I believed the main theme of Endwalker is to show humanity finally have the strength walk on their own and do not need an entity to carry them. This is strongly showed in Venat's speech before she sundered the world into 14 pieces. This story was never about apocalypses.

What do you mean do not need an entity to carry them? We literally only succeed because we had the help of godlike beings in every expansion. As for the character deaths. Rasler and Reks count, but so do Vossler and Reddas. As for type 0 i’m not sure how you got they would all die at the end just from the beginning but…literally doesn’t change anything that they all died. You’ve been given numerous examples and you try to retort by trying to use “artificial.” In an expansion that felt heavily artificial. The main theme of Endwalker is about dealing with loss,sacrifice, suffering etc and this is directly contradicted by the scions being resurrected at the end. So please tell me what the moral of the story here is because they were only really resurrected due to the ties to a higher up entity.

[Claire_Pendragon]

(1) Its pretty obvious last minute changes were made to the plot to make it more of a "surprise". I assume its because players predicted too much, and every expansion has been twisty, so they need the conclusion to also have twists.

(2) Some important stuff was rushed. (for different reasons) and some stuff was dragged out, due to not really having a point to something that was already too far in development.

potential was there, and good moments in EW are there. i cant say giving EW more development time would have fixed it, but it is what it is.

[Jandor]

He says that but that’s with things occurring my how they did. Had Venat actually told them everything and didn’t kept secrets, things could’ve gone in a completely different direction and the ancients might’ve actually stood a chance.

He's not exactly bereft of information at the end, he knows about everything he forgot, he's somehow been watching us with Hythlo and knows what we've been up to, and he knows all about his own people and what they were capable of. Don't take this personally, but I think Emet's assessment of his peoples chances is far more likely to be accurate than yours is.

[KizuyaKatogami]

He's not exactly bereft of information at the end, he knows about everything he forgot, he's somehow been watching us with Hythlo and knows what we've been up to, and he knows all about his own people and what they were capable of. Don't take this personally, but I think Emet's assessment of his peoples chances is far more likely to be accurate than yours is.

I mean, again, his mindset is clearly different than what it is in Elpis, so much so hes shocked at what he becomes. The fact is with everything we're told and shown, had Venat actually told her people what happened, they could've found a way forward, they just werent given the chance. Considering we have relied upon said unsundered ancients time and time again, we clearly cant do it ourselves. We need their help. If we couldnt do it without their help then whose to say they couldnt do it themselves? Dont take this personally but i think the writer's wrote themselves into a corner with this and it shows. While trying to write the story in a way that indirectly tried to say the sundering isnt all that bad and the sundered are capable of things the ancients arent, they contradicted themselves based on how theyve wrote things in the past. The sundered have hardly ever done thing via their own merit. Theyve done so with indirect help of the ancients or higher up entities. Hydaelyn,allag, etc etc. It just shows we'd be nowhere were it not for them.