*Spoilers* The Past and After the Endwalker MSQ End

[Iscah]

How is it a lose-lose situation? At most, it becomes a separate world that could conceptually be returned to later. It provides the background to wrap up the rest of the Ancients, such as the members of the Convocation that we haven't met, and learn more about the antics of Azem. It gives the Emet and Hythlodaeus fans something to remember, and would SE really just let those two rest after how successful they were? We don't need to go to that universe ourselves out of resolving tasks or obtaining knowledge that they might have - they already have their own version of us.

Honestly, I'm really not interested in seeing further plot with us involved with them. They had a great send-off and bowed out of our story. I think going back and creating a second timeline with them would weaken that from a narrative perspective.

If we could somehow get "bonus playable adventures of Azem and co" without having to send the WoL back there again? Maybe.

But I feel like at least part of the power of the Elpis arc, for me, was that sadness of meeting these people and knowing their future but not having the ability to change it. I wish it was played harder into the concept that we can't tell them anything about the future for fear of changing it and not being able to return to our own present and the people relying on us.

I also think it's much better to believe that, despite sidequests indicating that you have unlimited access to Elpis once attuned to its aetherytes, in the concept of the MSQ itself this was a one-time visit. You go through the portal formed by Elidibus's last act, spend your time there, return, and the portal closes. End of time travel.

This gets messier with Pandæmonium of course, but when we go there for that quest we have to repeat our trip to the Ocular and use the specific crystal to open the portal again. It's not just a matter of us teleporting there because we can.

[Jandor]

This gets messier with Pandæmonium of course, but when we go there for that quest we have to repeat our trip to the Ocular and use the specific crystal to open the portal again. It's not just a matter of us teleporting there because we can.

Yeah, our character may be blessed with an unusual abundance of anima, but even we are not so blessed as to be able to teleport 12,000 years into the past on a whim.

[Lurina]

I also think it's much better to believe that, despite sidequests indicating that you have unlimited access to Elpis once attuned to its aetherytes, in the concept of the MSQ itself this was a one-time visit. You go through the portal formed by Elidibus's last act, spend your time there, return, and the portal closes. End of time travel.

This gets messier with Pandæmonium of course, but when we go there for that quest we have to repeat our trip to the Ocular and use the specific crystal to open the portal again. It's not just a matter of us teleporting there because we can.

Does someone else want to tell them about the Studium quests, or should I?

[Iscah]

Does someone else want to tell them about the Studium quests, or should I?

See the first line of what you quoted from my post.

Ultimately it depends whether the Studium quests are written in tandem with the MSQ, or if they just get handed off to someone else who gets told "here are the zones; think of some reason to collect a thing from each of them".

There's also a degree of outright excusing gameplay elements here. I would also argue that our trip to the First theoretically played out with us there the entire time, teleported there by the Exarch's device and sent back through the portal, complete with a discussion about the Exarch needing to not accidentally drop us in the woods again "next time he summons us" – despite us officially being free to teleport between the worlds via normal aetheryte.

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EDIT: I'm out of post count for the next twelve hours, so please excuse this out-of-sequence quoting from post #32.

They could have used a whole number of other tools to get the point of Elpis across (to make it a distinct place that you can get to only once or twice), but they chose to make a it a full zone that you can travel to. And explicitly in the past. Originally when I saw the teasers, I thought it would just be ruins and we'll interact with more records - perhaps a AI or memory like Emet's shades on the First. That it's a full zone and there are quests that reference traveling to it beyond just for the MSQ already opens the can of worms and dumps them all over the floor.

I don't think it would have the same power if you could only visit the ruins and interact with memories and shades. The whole point is experiencing the ancient world as a real place with living people in it, not Emet's ghostly recreation. It's just unfortunate that it is therefore obliged to be used for "regular zone stuff" like gathering quests.

[Lurina]

See the first line of what you quoted from my post.

Oh, I didn't realize what you were referencing.

Well, my point is that they've kinda already thrown out the vision for it that you were hoping for. With that in mind, I don't think it would be bad to throw a bone to the evidently pretty large amount of people who feel dissatisfied with the awkwardness and moral dissonance of the time loop/Venat plot.

[LystAP]

Oh, I didn't realize what you were referencing.

Well, my point is that they've kinda already thrown out the vision for it that you were hoping for. With that in mind, I don't think it would be bad to throw a bone to the evidently pretty large amount of people who feel dissatisfied with the awkwardness and moral dissonance of the time loop/Venat plot.

They could have used a number of other tools to get the point of Elpis across (to make it a distinct place that you can get to only once or twice), but they chose to make a it a full zone that you can travel to. And explicitly in the past. Originally when I saw the teasers, I thought it would just be ruins and we'll interact with more records - perhaps a AI or memory like Emet's shades on the First. That it's a full zone and there are quests that reference traveling to it beyond just for the MSQ already opens the can of worms and dumps them all over the floor.