Seems like blue dps is still king so DRK will rule the savage

[Ignimortis]

Where can I trade off DPS for a fun class

I went to main RPR. Somehow RPR has mitigated through 6.05 and only lost in utility despite being busted damage-wise. Maybe RPR is class who can MT the meta?

[Veranolth]

I don't think anyone is gonna stop being hyperbolic. I mean, I agree with you but I think everyone else has every right to be upset of the state of current DRK. Whether they exaggerate or not doesn't really matter, and I feel like that's more of a personal problem of yours rather than everyone else.

I don't think people are gonna be too happy when things like Living Dead and BW haven't been changed, even after being shouted out in the ENG and JP forums for so long.

Being upset is ok, more than ok in fact. Voicing concerns is perfectly fine, it's how that concern is being voiced that is the problem.

[DarkDredgen]

World first was DRK , GNB and blue dps is ever more important so they will rule.

So for all DRK whining in this forum, they are in a Good spot and no , no one cares about dungeons , if you squishy pulling wall to wall that’s the price you pay to be top blue dps.

So your assessment is "DRK does good damage, therfore absouletly fine + no one cares about anything other than extreme/savage content (which excludes, like, the entire main story btw)"

You're literally whats wrong with this games identity crisis at the moment.

It's a Tank, no one cares/should care how much damage it does. That's not its primary role in a party, it's not even its secondary role in the party. And it shouldn't dictate general use/effectiveness in any gameplay outside of very deliberate speeds runs. Curious, what % of players do you reckon do that? Because that's what you basing DRK's performance off.

I bet you're one of these people who basis a healers performance off of its dps too, aren't you? Sad.

[JanVanding]

I went to main RPR. Somehow RPR has mitigated through 6.05 and only lost in utility despite being busted damage-wise. Maybe RPR is class who can MT the meta?

Might wanna double check the data. I know everyone wants to believe RPR is the most busted melee dps to ever exist yet when we start to look at optimisation of runs...it's not RPR in that number one spot, it's MNK.

It's a lot closer at the top end than forum posters would like people to think, MNK overtakes in optimisation runs but at are not far behind and often dead even in prog, SAM is just a whisker behind both. NIN and DRG are more awaiting results after their buffs because before both jobs were massively under performing.

The reason RPR is everywhere? It's a very easy rotation and pick up and play friendly giving it a very stable base of performance, but they aren't number one, that spot belongs to the optimisation requiring MNK.

[Ignimortis]

Might wanna double check the data. I know everyone wants to believe RPR is the most busted melee dps to ever exist yet when we start to look at optimisation of runs...it's not RPR in that number one spot, it's MNK.

It's a lot closer at the top end than forum posters would like people to think, MNK overtakes in optimisation runs but at are not far behind and often dead even in prog, SAM is just a whisker behind both. NIN and DRG are more awaiting results after their buffs because before both jobs were massively under performing.

The reason RPR is everywhere? It's a very easy rotation and pick up and play friendly giving it a very stable base of performance, but they aren't number one, that spot belongs to the optimisation requiring MNK.

As far as party utility+DPS go, the ideal top DPS order should be something like SAM>DRG=MNK>RPR>NIN, shouldn't it? So MNK and RPR are a bit ahead of the curve in that regard, and both were expected to get some potency hits in 6.05.

[JanVanding]

As far as party utility+DPS go, the ideal top DPS order should be something like SAM>DRG=MNK>RPR>NIN, shouldn't it? So MNK and RPR are a bit ahead of the curve in that regard, and both were expected to get some potency hits in 6.05.

Except that's actually wrong. Because RPR outside of a singular party buff is an extremely selfish DPS and the reason MNK is over performing when optimizing is because of RoW.

Auto attacks are a huge part of a dps'es performance. RPR/SAM/MNK already have great auto attacking as nothing they do outside of moving out of range or facing away (thus cancelling/losing autos themselves) throw in that MNK gives themselves a 50% auto attack refresh buff and you're in for some very nutty numbers.

[Satarn]

As far as party utility+DPS go, the ideal top DPS order should be something like SAM>DRG=MNK>RPR>NIN, shouldn't it? So MNK and RPR are a bit ahead of the curve in that regard, and both were expected to get some potency hits in 6.05.

Why do people always act like NIN is some amazing utility job when they literally got none aside from lol-Feint? They lost all their utility when aggro management stopped being a thing in SHB. Trick is not utility - it's a raid dps buff and as such, is already accounted for in the rDPS rankings(aka all that people look at since certain website switched to those), at which NIN is again positioned rather poorly.

If you're going to balance by utility, NIN and DRG should both be at the top of the rDPS along with SAM, then BLM right after because they at least get Addle, which is far better than Feint. I'd even argue NIN and DRG should be ahead of SAM due to their rDPS being dependent on coordination with other people. However I am skeptical as to SE giving a crap about utility balancing, as the only melee dps with any are MNK and RPR and they're both up there in terms of aDPS and rDPS alike.

[Ryaduera]

DRK:
1) Rampart
2) Shadow Wall
3) Oblation (x2, giving it 7 defensives to play with if you truly want to get nitty gritty.)
4) Living Dead
5) TBN
6) Dark mind (Magic specific)

Rampart and Shadow Wall are negligible since those are all shared cooldowns, just remember WAR has damage locked behind theirs, too.

Olbation is weaker than every other version of it that the tanks have, and having 2 charges doesn't make it another defensive, being on a 60 second recharge time means it is overall equivalent to a 30 second cooldown. TBN is actually not as good as people think. Don't get me wrong, it is fantastic but using it as an excuse to hold back the Dark Knight is pathetic, especially now. TBN is only actually useful if the mechanic hitting your TBN target would have killed them before the shield value, but under the condition that the target survives, every single other tank party-cooldown will leave them higher after its own optimal usage. This paired with the fact that the more damage taken the less valuable TBN really is also holds it back. TBN will only ever block the amount of HP it shields and so without a proper percentage based mitigation to pair with it, it will always be weaker, and pairing it with Oblation does not fill in this gap. Any damage that leaves a target under 50% hp is where most other abilities are noticeably superior, and those damage instances are the only ones worth looking at for tanks, as party healing is not the tanks priority. When I talk about DRK party mitigation I consider it pairing 100% of Oblations with a TBN and the math still always comes out saying DRK is inferior. It's fine that TBN doesn't hold up to them because of its accesibility, though, since being on a 15s cooldown is very nice. Just saying that it alone is so good that it shouldn't be able to otherwise compare with other tanks mitigative values is absurd. It's very good, but it alone is not enough to carry the job compared to the other tanks.

Dark Mind is a joke. There's so few encounters where it actually makes a difference. Camouflage is also not exclusive to magic damage, it is all damage with a parry rate. It may have a longer cooldown than Dark Mind, but it will overall always mitigate more damage than Dark Mind. It's a nice skill to have, but in comparison to other tanks, it's an absolute joke of an ability. Almost anyone who takes tanking seriously would easily trade it for something that is weaker, but more applicable to a variety of scenarios other than one extremely rarely filled niche.

And let's not even touch LD here... we all know...

Using damage as an excuse is also pretty bad since all you're really saying is that it's nice to have a DPS class that can help with tank swap mechanics.

[RyuDragnier]

Using damage as an excuse is also pretty bad since all you're really saying is that it's nice to have a DPS class that can help with tank swap mechanics.

The current damage of DRK isn't even that great right now, since GNB is within half a percent of DRK at the highest percentiles. So you essentially could replace DRK with GNB to get similar damage with a better kit.

[Ryaduera]

The current damage of DRK isn't even that great right now, since GNB is within half a percent of DRK at the highest percentiles. So you essentially could replace DRK with GNB to get similar damage with a better kit.

That's also part of the problem, since GNB defensive tools are generally better as well. It just kind of reinforces that DRK isn't actually trading off for damage, but rather just pulling ever so slightly ahead of another tank that can do the tank part significantly better.