Seems like blue dps is still king so DRK will rule the savage

[Danelo]

You need to start reading before commenting, yes DRK doesn’t have as much as sustain as WAR or PLD but they are top DPS. Do you read the part about the TRADE OFF?

It’s a tank; There’s no trade off worth sacrificing defensives and sustain in any content. If I wanted high DPS and that’s primarily what I cared about I’d play a DPS.


This dps chat does sidestep that most DRKs dislike it’s gameplay and lack of identity as a main issue…

[Starkbeaumont]

last expansions the very same people were complaining that DRK did the least damage.

[Crater]

last expansions the very same people were complaining that DRK did the least damage.

A lot of the discourse surrounding DRK at this point is people just readjusting their worldview on the fly from moment to moment in whatever way lets them maintain the fundamental view that DRK is weak, has been mistreated, etc.

If DRK does well in raids then raids are for tryhards and dungeon performance is more important; if the evidence starts pointing to DRK holding up well in dungeons then suddenly it's only raid tankbusters that count.
Some people who spent the last two years complaining every day that DRK had been turned into a Warrior clone and they wanted a unique identity have now just spent the last month asking for TBN to be turned into Bloodwhetting, Dark Mind turned into Thrill of Battle, and Living Dead turned into Holmgang, Shadowbringer to be turned into Primal Rend, etc.
If DRK's damage is good then damage doesn't matter and they play a tank to be tanky, damnit. If DRK's damage were bad and it were rock-solid defensively then the same people would be talking about how defenses don't matter and "obviously" only damage matters in FFXIV.

Not that there aren't still people here with a head on their shoulders who can make an argument, consider/offer evidence, agree and disagree, etc - and most of them are pretty unhappy with the state of the class. I've got nothing but respect for people who can still hold a discussion, whether I agree with them or not on any given point. But so much of it these days is drowned out by the big white noise pity-party that it's easy to lose track of any actual conversation.

[Danelo]

last expansions the very same people were complaining that DRK did the least damage.

That’s a broad brush, my friend, and not accurate. I don’t think DPS should be a metric used to differentiate between tanks. I think it’s a poor excuse for identity. I would rather DRK do less if it bought more sustain or better defensives in line with HoC, BW, and HS.

[Veranolth]

He's not. It's just a known fact that all the tanks can do what DRK does, but better. GNB is only a little below DRK but has a lot of defensive options at its disposal.
DRK is viable, DRK performs fine in raids, but its design is still a jumbled mess. Everyone using DPS/TBN as an excuse for them being lazy with EW/ShB DRK isn't better than everyone being hyperbolic on here.

Don't get me wrong, I do think DRK should be on the higher end of DPS, but least give it some form of a mitigation upgrade that's as satisfying as the other lvl 82 CDs. TBN is and will continue to hold the job back.

And I've said multiple times now that DRK can use some changes, I just don't agree with the hyperbolic statements. DRK has issues, let's just not exaggerate things.

[Sazuzaki]

And I've said multiple times now that DRK can use some changes, I just don't agree with the hyperbolic statements. DRK has issues, let's just not exaggerate things.

I don't think anyone is gonna stop being hyperbolic. I mean, I agree with you but I think everyone else has every right to be upset of the state of current DRK. Whether they exaggerate or not doesn't really matter, and I feel like that's more of a personal problem of yours rather than everyone else.

I don't think people are gonna be too happy when things like Living Dead and BW haven't been changed, even after being shouted out in the ENG and JP forums for so long.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

It’s a tank; There’s no trade off worth sacrificing defensives and sustain in any content.

What sacrifice of defensives? DRK literally has the exact same number as the other tanks, and 1 more than GNB & WAR if the damage is magic.

GNB:
1) Rampart
2) nebula
3) Camo (only 10% if damage is magic, RNG damage mitigation if damage is physical.)
4) Bolide
5) HoC

WAR:
1) Rampart
2) vengeance
3) Thrill
4) Holmgang
5) Bloodwhetting

DRK:
1) Rampart
2) Shadow Wall
3) Oblation (x2, giving it 7 defensives to play with if you truly want to get nitty gritty.)
4) Living Dead
5) TBN
6) Dark mind (Magic specific)

DRK doesn't sacrifice anything on the defense front. It also dunks so insanely hard on this savage tier due to a large amount of tank damage being magic based (P2s tether, P3s tankbuster + OT autos, Every single P4s tank buster), to the point I only had to actually use Living Dead on a single mechanic this whole tier across all four fights due to the huge repertoire of mitigative options DRK has that LD is irrelevant outside of niche scenarios, and half of that defensive power comes purely from how ridiculously flexible Oblation is.

Lack of self sustain is a fine point to make, but for anyone to claim it lacks in defensive power when it literally has more than any other tank is absolutely ridiculous. The savage tier has easily shown DRK is pushing the top of tank dps & fiercely competitive, if not the pure king of defensive strength as well. Lack of self-recovery is its only weakness (which is only really exasperated in dungeons), hence why it's being so predominantly used in early clears of P4s atm.

Now whether you enjoy the gameplay style or not is an entirely different discussion, but as it currently stands, functionally, DRK is one of the strongest picks you can make for savage prog.

[Sazuzaki]

Now whether you enjoy the gameplay style or not is an entirely different discussion, but as it currently stands, functionally, DRK is one of the strongest picks you can make for savage prog.

This is a very valid point. DRK is a super strong pick and very viable, but A LOT of people (including me) hate how much it gets neglected in terms of how it plays.

But it still doesn't excuse how you can basically play GNB get the same rewards with better survivablility. Hence why I said other tanks can do what DRK does, but slightly better with things like HoC. There's such a little difference in tank DPS that it genuinely does not matter which one you play unless you have like world first members on your team.

Just sucks that Dark Mind is fight specific and while most do use magic busters, what about the times where they're physical instead? Dark Mind is just a wasted skill at that point. They really just need to make it 10% general damage and 10% magic damage.

[RyuDragnier]

Just sucks that Dark Mind is fight specific and while most do use magic busters, what about the times where they're physical instead? Dark Mind is just a wasted skill at that point. They really just need to make it 10% general damage and 10% magic damage.

They just need to completely replace Dark Mind with Oblation. Have it be the level 45 skill with level 82 giving the 2nd charge (and possibly an HoT).

[JanVanding]

This sounds a lot like the “DRK cleared UCoB World First so it’s fine!” argument that plagued the job in Stormblood.

Just because a certain job cleared world first doesn’t mean it is free of flaws. WHM has cleared world first in several tiers due to being a decent prog healer—but that doesn’t mean it never had any design flaws.

They're also missing that DRK isn't MTing, it's OTing because of it bringing dps to the table and not much else compared to WAR and GBR. WAR can basically get through most things by themselves it's the tank swap mechanics where they need a hand like every other tank.