*Spoilers* Anyone feel joining Emet would have been better

[Alleo]

The latter was reasonable if it turned out to be a permanent generational problem. Which it wasn't and was resolved as such. The butterfly I'll concede to, but even that isn't that much different than crafting a cloak from leather or something.

These creatures only got those chances because of Hermes. And even after Emet just used a few minutes of his time to teach the creature to fly the person in charge of it still questioned if it wouldnt have been easier to just destroy the race and start anew. I honestly doubt these problem animals would still be alive if the chief of the Elpis was not so kind to them.

We also cant really compare us killing animals for fur and other stuff with the things that the Ancients did. First the sundered had to bascially fight these creatures (quite a few of them being huge and very dangerous), risking their own life. And second we basically cant use creation magic so we have to use real items to create things for us. As far as the side quests hint at, Ancients bascially can even create meals with their magic. Emet and Hythlo create the Elpis flowers without the need to return some living beings into aether. So unlike us they dont need to do that to survive.

Basically the sundered are part of the circle of life, just like the other creatures. The Ancients were above it and still just destroyed those that they did not like. And I guess I can accept that with the wolves. It would be horrible for all if these would be released and bascially destroyed a whole other creature race or more. (Of course the question remains on why such beings were even created in the first place) But seemingly they are also taken down if they dont fit into the perfect box the Ancients have built for them.

As a side note: I found it very interesting how in the big side quest in that zone, the NPCs really like our ideas because they are so fresh and do admit that with their long lifespans their creativity and new ideas are getting bad. I think that might have been another small hint that at the end they might have ended like the race from the dungeon, when they finally created their perfect world. Of course that does not mean that they should die, after all the journey to it is important too.

[Lersayil]

snip

Things get iffy when Hermes is involved, as he's not just the pro life guy, but also a head researcher in Elpis. We have absolutely no idea how much of his intervention is beyond his professional responsibility. The one with the flying creature implies carelessness or incompetence from the researchers, and I don't think its mentioned if there is any more paperwork or approvals involved. On the other hand however, the one where they actually did put down the concept, it was shown that the researchers in charge went above and beyond to test any and all possible alterations, and documented them to a point where it stood up to biased peer review from Hermes.

I won't argue that they don't see creations, familiars and sundered as somehow lesser. They absolutely do. But they do handle most with a measure dignity (apparently relative to sentience or perceived soul?), and they do have a point, to a point. Having the ability to create and destroy life innately, with varying complexity is bound to cause some divergence from our own views on life and death.

You argue that they have it better, they should be better. Personally, I argue they have it better... they could do so, soo much worse just for their personal amusement. I won't say they couldn't be better, but I think its safe to say they are doing damn near the best one could expect from an imperfect society blessed with near godlike powers.

I honestly struggle to imagine a better outcome should humanity ever get such a power even in a post-scarcity scenario.

[Alleo]

You argue that they have it better, they should be better. Personally, I argue they have it better... they could do so, soo much worse just for their personal amusement. I won't say they couldn't be better, but I think its safe to say they are doing damn near the best one could expect from an imperfect society blessed with near godlike powers.

My argument is more that we cant just be like "but look the sundered do it too so the Ancients are not bad by doing it" when in reality the sundered simply dont have creation magic thus need to kill the animals for survivals. (And that they are at least part of the circle of life thus they may kill but also get killed in return)

I just dont like that whenever a fault of the Ancient is pointed out, its said that we do that too while not taking into account that one side is basically god like while the other struggles to survive. I am fine with the Ancients. I love Elpis and I love that SE used the side quest in that area but also in the fake Amaurot to show us that Emets view of them was tainted.



Its just pretty clear with that Zone that their society was not perfect. That they indeed did see other life forms in a different light. That does not make them absolute horrible people that should be wiped out. Its just give them faults. But as soon as one mentions such faults there are points how we are not better.

[Rulakir]

I've said before it seems ridiculous to me to judge the ancients when our culture isn't any better. Just because we don't have creation magic doesn't mean we don't try to act like gods. Breeding is a good example.

As far as respecting and valuing life, the egg industry tosses male chicks into grinders because they're useless and millions of people support this. Humans value humans, companion animals to a lesser extent, and anything else is usually not given any thought.

[YianKutku]

I've said before it seems ridiculous to me to judge the ancients when our culture isn't any better. Just because we don't have creation magic doesn't mean we don't try to act like gods. Breeding is a good example.

The Ancients, as represented by Emet-Selch as self-proclaimed spokesman, and who is also the subject of this thread, certainly felt free to judge us by their own arbitrary standards.

[Jandor]

Basically the sundered are part of the circle of life, just like the other creatures. The Ancients were above it and still just destroyed those that they did not like. And I guess I can accept that with the wolves. It would be horrible for all if these would be released and bascially destroyed a whole other creature race or more. (Of course the question remains on why such beings were even created in the first place) But seemingly they are also taken down if they dont fit into the perfect box the Ancients have built for them.

As a side note: I found it very interesting how in the big side quest in that zone, the NPCs really like our ideas because they are so fresh and do admit that with their long lifespans their creativity and new ideas are getting bad. I think that might have been another small hint that at the end they might have ended like the race from the dungeon, when they finally created their perfect world. Of course that does not mean that they should die, after all the journey to it is important too.

Seems like they were basically made for a laugh to be honest.

To give them due credit, the researchers in Elpis seem to be fairly focused on creating new flora and fauna for a purpose, wider society however seems to submit ideas based mostly on what trends are in vogue at the moment. It's mentioned at one point that they keep getting weirder and weirder shark based concepts to test, not because of any great need for new sharks, but because shark concepts are currently the in thing among Amaurotians.

It's funny to think that somewhere out there, there was probably an Ancient showing off to her friends: *Holds up concept* 'I made a shark but stuck wings on its head, XD I'm so random lol'