Skills should scale down in lower content NOT be greyed out.

[KyahAlmasy]

Repeated for posterity.
Catch 22, both scenarios will piss a ton of people off.

This is not a good idea.

The best solution is to make more skills available at lower levels.
Every tank/dps should have an AoE, and at least 3 single target skills (whether thats a 1-2-3 combo, or 2 GCDs and an oGCD, or a GCD a DoT and an oGCD, whatever) by level 15.
Every job should have their job gauge and a substantial rotation by level 50.

I've been playing since FFXIV originally came out, and I can say that I have never seen anyone vote dismiss in a low level dungeon, or try to kick a sprout for being new. It would would take far more time waiting through the leaver penalty (30 minutes) and then a DPS queue (likely another 15-20 minutes) than it would just running the dungeon with them. It just sounds like the most inane, and backward thinking from a progression, and time-saving perspective.

[Powercow]

I've been playing since FFXIV originally came out, and I can say that I have never seen anyone vote dismiss in a low level dungeon, or try to kick a sprout for being new. It would would take far more time waiting through the leaver penalty (30 minutes) and then a DPS queue (likely another 15-20 minutes) than it would just running the dungeon with them. It just sounds like the most inane, and backward thinking from a progression, and time-saving perspective.

That's because, while sprouts generally aren't very good, veteran players aren't objectively several times stronger by default in sync'd content.

And come on, you're telling me you don't remember the days of people kicking before the last boss in AK or WP because someone "wasn't contributing" enough, or Prae or Castrum for watching cutscenes?

[icrot]

I bet all the people who are so against it are the same who loved the 'In from the Cold' scenario quest. Pressing 3 buttons was so damn frantic and enjoyable.

[KyahAlmasy]

That's because, while sprouts generally aren't very good, veteran players aren't objectively several times stronger by default in sync'd content.

And come on, you're telling me you don't remember the days of people kicking before the last boss in AK or WP because someone "wasn't contributing" enough, or Prae or Castrum for watching cutscenes?

No, it's because logistically, it doesn't makes sense. You're wasting more time with the leaver penalty and needing to requeue than the time it would take to actually run the dungeon with the sprouts. I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain at a new player for not preforming as well as veterans, especially when they clearly have the sprout over their head. I've seen some people lose patience for dying to mechanics, but that can happen to literally anyone in the older dungeons.

Kicking before the last boss in AK or WP? What? I love that you're saying this like "it is known" when it was likely a very small number of players that actually did this, and this is coming from someone was active when AK and WP were the go-to dungeons, to the point where you had to actually wait in queue for an instance to become available in order to even run it. And not once did I ever see anyone kick a player for being new or underperforming. Most of the monsters in those dungeons could simply be avoided by taking certain routes around them anyway. And people kicking newer players from Prae or Castrum is an entirely different argument because they weren't kicking them for being weaker than older players, it was because they wanted to experience the story and castrum and prae are notoriously long dungeons, where as most older dungeons in the roulette can be knocked out in half an hour or less.

The idea that people are going to either leave, or keep kicking sprouts until they get another synced down vet to run the dungeon with is so backwards that it's almost laughable.

[Powercow]

No, it's because logistically, it doesn't makes sense. You're wasting more time with the leaver penalty and needing to requeue than the time it would take to actually run the dungeon with the sprouts. I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain at a new player for not preforming as well as veterans, especially when they clearly have the sprout over their head. I've seen some people lose patience for dying to mechanics, but that can happen to literally anyone in the older dungeons.

Kicking before the last boss in AK or WP? What? I love that you're saying this like "it is known" when it was likely a very small number of players that actually did this, and this is coming from someone was active when AK and WP were the go-to dungeons, to the point where you had to actually wait in queue for an instance to become available in order to even run it. And not once did I ever see anyone kick a player for being new or underperforming. Most of the monsters in those dungeons could simply be avoided by taking certain routes around them anyway. And people kicking newer players from Prae or Castrum is an entirely different argument because they weren't kicking them for being weaker than older players, it was because they wanted to experience the story and castrum and prae are notoriously long dungeons, where as most older dungeons in the roulette can be knocked out in half an hour or less.

The idea that people are going to either leave, or keep kicking sprouts until they get another synced down vet to run the dungeon with is so backwards that it's almost laughable.

It's not even necessarily about efficiency, it's about vindictiveness. This community can be incredibly toxic if given the slightest reason or incentive to be. If you've been on Excal since ARR, then I find it highly dubious that you never encountered people who are so petty they'd rather do the final boss with 3 people than let the leecher, whether he was a leecher or not, get credit.

And don't even try to out-"old man yells at cloud" me. I've been playing longer than you have. I remember the sac runs. I know the safety corner and I still know which hippocerf would usually screw it up.

[Lemuria]

I bet all the people who are so against it are the same who loved the 'In from the Cold' scenario quest. Pressing 3 buttons was so damn frantic and enjoyable.

So, what you're saying is that a white mage should have access to multiple different oGCD heals during a dungeon where conjurers only normally have cure 1 to heal? And that would be 'fair' to new players?

I think people forget that new players want to actually experience the content of the game, not have someone solo it for them. The sheer number of weaves possible by endgame means that any other DPS will be completely and utterly outclassed no matter how you try and rebalance their skills for lower dungeons. What of Ninjas who can speed up their attacks with mudra? Red Mages who can heal, DPS and rez effectively outclassing even the newbie healer in sheer utility.

No, there's a reason skill levels exist and I'd rather not destroy game balance and ruin the game for those people who just want to have the chance to play it as it was intended.

...though I do 100% agree that all DPS should have at least one AoE by level 15. That is an embarrassment that should've been addressed ages ago.

[Bellsong]

Balancing full kits in low dungeons would be a nightmare, and honestly would be just wasted effort when you could reexamine leveling skills, maybe bump job advancement to 20 and just give players fuller or more fun kits by the time they have to dungeon. At the very least give everyone AOE by satasha.

[Hezzlocks]

Guys, imbalance on low levels IS ALREADY an issue, so I don't get why you are using it as argument against OP's proposal.

Because what is being proposed in this thread is WAY more imbalanced. You don't just look at a thing and say "this aspect of the thing is already pretty bad, so we might as well just make it absolutely horrible".

There is no perfect solution to this problem, and tbh the problem isn't as bad as some people are making it out to be. How often do you guys even get Sastasha in roulette anyway? There are WAY more mid to high leveling dungeons than there are sub-30. If you happen to get one of the sub-30 dungeons it's not going to hurt you to just do it. All these "solutions" people are trying to come up with are way more complicated than they think they are and have a very high chance of just absolutely breaking the game entirely.

The only REAL solution is to give lower level jobs a few more abilities earlier, just to the point that every job has a basic toolkit before the first dungeon.

[Seraphor]

I bet all the people who are so against it are the same who loved the 'In from the Cold' scenario quest. Pressing 3 buttons was so damn frantic and enjoyable.

I bet all the people who want to ruin the balance of low level content are the same people who couldn't do the 'In from the Cold' scenario quest and can't handle playing as different characters in the various MSQ solo duties for the extremely limited airtime they take up.

[Hezzlocks]

Also could ypu imagine a new player who's playing tank and hasn't yet turned off other players spell effects (because why would you at that point?), walking into Sastasha and... suddenly they're bombarded by Verflares, BLM explosions and Holy spam?

I don't know about you but if that happened to me when I first played the game, the idea that every single pull in every single dungeon would be a visual assault on my eyes would have turned me off of the game very quickly. Yes, you can turn other players spell effects off, but we're talking about newbie sprouts here. They don't know you can do that!