Echo and Blessing of light, post endwalker retcon

[Remedi]

I think some ppl realized some incongruences with this stuff just now but, personally I feel it was clear since HW when primals became something entirely different from how they were written before, in ARR Ifrit, Titan and Garuda all can sense Hydaelyn's presence in you and that seems to imply they knew of her, yet in HW they are just fabrication of some ppl mind. From that onward it's was clear they were creating as they went trough and all the things that weren't hard stated like a hammer weren't safe bets anymore.
Sometimes they did it rather well like with Elidibus, where they managed to be vague enough that it would work, in other areas not so much (like the ascian conclave of 15 ascians, emmerololth being alive while in lore being dead, Elidibus mentioning that humans have a huge potential etc). On this particular topic however I feel like the cracks aren't that important since the mayor retcon happened already in 5.2 when the revelation of the echo being something else and the ppl making assumption was given to us, furthermore I don't believe Zenos spiel about how it works, because frankly those were but conjectures or can be handwaved as such.

[Cleretic]

The big problem I have with the retcon is that it breaks one of two things because of how it completely fails to address the Resonant.

Remember that all three Resonant explicitly used it to protect from tempering; Zenos to throttle down and consume Shinryu's will, Fordola to protect Ala Mhigo from Lakshmi and then later as part of a number of anti-primal expeditions, and Misija specifically to emulate Ysayle when controlling Queen Gunnhildr. Fordola and her Resonance are also actually a very prominent part of the healer role quests, which should have been prime position to do a bit of off-handed explanation, and yet, nothing.

Also remember that you don't just inherently get the Blessing; the WoL themselves got it after besting some voidsent (at least, it was voidsent for an Ul'Dah and Limsa start, I'm not aware if it was voidsent for Gridania too), which wasn't exactly a tough challenge for us, but we also know that it's not necessarily that easy. Remember that we have a sample size of six thanks to the Shadowbringers role quests, we know how all of Ardbert's team got theirs and it wasn't exactly a picnic for any of them.

I think we're owed an explanation rather than just being left to our own speculation, because these two facts together create a problem when we don't have one. This means that one of two things breaks:
A: The Resonance is no longer what it's been reported as by every single in-game source, which then calls everything all three of them have done into question,
or B: All three of the Resonant have the Blessing, which wouldn't be that weird to hear about Fordola, but then raises the question of 'oh god did Hydaelyn give Zenos and Misija the Blessing basically for free'. Everyone else had to work kinda hard for theirs, so how did Zenos The Worst Garlean get it, and how did Misija given there was basically no time between her getting the Resonance and using it on Gunnhildr?

[ThorneDynasty]

Another thing that bugs me is that the Traveler's Ward is clearly explained to be a spell Venat has to deliberately cast (so much so if she doesn't know about you having it the only logical explanation must be time travel) while we are repeatedly told Hydaleyn is so drained she can't even communicate key information to us from afar. Yet she's still mass casting primal immunity on hundreds of people on the First. On a world that doesn't have any primals.

Maybe things would have gone down a bit easier if she was smarter with the resource allocation, just saying.

[RyuDragnier]

Another thing that bugs me is that the Traveler's Ward is clearly explained to be a spell Venat has to deliberately cast (so much so if she doesn't know about you having it the only logical explanation must be time travel) while we are repeatedly told Hydaleyn is so drained she can't even communicate key information to us from afar. Yet she's still mass casting primal immunity on hundreds of people on the First. On a world that doesn't have any primals.

Maybe things would have gone down a bit easier if she was smarter with the resource allocation, just saying.

Do we even know how much energy is being used on the Blessing of Light? Is it so small that it's the equivalent of breathing? Or is it a larger use of energy than that?

[ThorneDynasty]

It does seem like granting the most prestigious magical protection possible should take a bit more out of you than just talking, honestly.

[Jandor]

It does seem like granting the most prestigious magical protection possible should take a bit more out of you than just talking, honestly.

She is a primal though, designed to sunder the world and hand out prestigious magical protection like candy. Being good at talking to her wards wasn't in the blueprints though, rather large oversight in my opinion.

[Theozilla]

The big problem I have with the retcon is that it breaks one of two things because of how it completely fails to address the Resonant.

Remember that all three Resonant explicitly used it to protect from tempering; Zenos to throttle down and consume Shinryu's will, Fordola to protect Ala Mhigo from Lakshmi and then later as part of a number of anti-primal expeditions, and Misija specifically to emulate Ysayle when controlling Queen Gunnhildr. Fordola and her Resonance are also actually a very prominent part of the healer role quests, which should have been prime position to do a bit of off-handed explanation, and yet, nothing.

Also remember that you don't just inherently get the Blessing; the WoL themselves got it after besting some voidsent (at least, it was voidsent for an Ul'Dah and Limsa start, I'm not aware if it was voidsent for Gridania too), which wasn't exactly a tough challenge for us, but we also know that it's not necessarily that easy. Remember that we have a sample size of six thanks to the Shadowbringers role quests, we know how all of Ardbert's team got theirs and it wasn't exactly a picnic for any of them.

I think we're owed an explanation rather than just being left to our own speculation, because these two facts together create a problem when we don't have one. This means that one of two things breaks:
A: The Resonance is no longer what it's been reported as by every single in-game source, which then calls everything all three of them have done into question,
or B: All three of the Resonant have the Blessing, which wouldn't be that weird to hear about Fordola, but then raises the question of 'oh god did Hydaelyn give Zenos and Misija the Blessing basically for free'. Everyone else had to work kinda hard for theirs, so how did Zenos The Worst Garlean get it, and how did Misija given there was basically no time between her getting the Resonance and using it on Gunnhildr?

It can be explained/reconciled in that both the Echo/Resonant and the Blessing of Light provide protection from tempering, just in different ways. With the Echo/Resonant providing protection based on how Zenos describes it, being an amplification of an individual's will power and such, while the Blessing of Light is a more comprehensive magicked protection/immunity.


Also you have to remember how 5.2 clarified that every non-Ascian and non-artificial Echo/Resonant user has the Blessing of Light granted to them as soon as they awaken the Echo.

What the WoL and Ardebrt and his companions had to earn was a Crystal of Light which further empowers the Blessing of Light. But individuals can still have the Blessing of Light without having a Crystal of Light (and that would be by default be the most common form of the Blessing of Light).

So yeah the redundancy of the Echo and Blessing of Light's overlapping protections can make things a little wonky, but they aren't unreconcilable.

[Cleretic]

Also you have to remember how 5.2 clarified that every non-Ascian and non-artificial Echo/Resonant user has the Blessing of Light granted to them as soon as they awaken the Echo.

See, that didn't actually appear to be a blessing, though, so much as just hearing her. Hydaelyn's been screaming out a message on a loop basically just to ensure she gets the first word in and therefore ensures a sort of bias. If the first thing you hear after awakening to a weird power is a woman's voice saying nice things, you're more inclined to think she's legit, which gets her some soft allies and cuts the Ascians off at the pass.

It's not a blessing, it's just shouting.

[Theozilla]

See, that didn't actually appear to be a blessing, though, so much as just hearing her. Hydaelyn's been screaming out a message on a loop basically just to ensure she gets the first word in and therefore ensures a sort of bias. If the first thing you hear after awakening to a weird power is a woman's voice saying nice things, you're more inclined to think she's legit, which gets her some soft allies and cuts the Ascians off at the pass.

It's not a blessing, it's just shouting.

Except Urianger then surmised that the automated call also has the effect of granting said Echo-users the Blessing of Light immediately after the Echo is awoken, which Elidibus then affirms.
Here is the literal line that Urianger stated (and Elidibus then replied “Just so” to)

One might surmise that Her call never ceaseth, such that all who awaken their innate gift might receive of the blessing of Light at the selfsame instant.