*Spoilers* Anyone feel joining Emet would have been better

[MikkoAkure]

Don't they specifically say this expansion that Hydaelyn and Zodiark aren't like modern Primals and can't temper people?

Not quite. The Lopporits say there will be a "tug" because of the sheer amount of aether, which means there's at least an effect and I think that can be associated to their different behavior before the summonings and how we know them in the modern sense. Then there's Emet-Selch who outright says he's tempered, using that exact word.

[Veloran]

Not quite. The Lopporits say there will be a "tug" because of the sheer amount of aether, which means there's at least an effect and I think that can be associated to their different behavior before the summonings and how we know them in the modern sense. Then there's Emet-Selch who outright says he's tempered, using that exact word.

In other words, the writers wanted to try to get Hydaelyn off the hook despite the fact that they had already wrote themselves into a corner, so they gave a poor and vague explanation that we can deduce nothing from either way.

[MikkoAkure]

In other words, the writers wanted to try to get Hydaelyn off the hook despite the fact that they had already wrote themselves into a corner, so they gave a poor and vague explanation that we can deduce nothing from either way.

If you want to look at it at that angle, sure but the way I see it:

Emet-Selch, who has nothing to hide: "Yeah I'm tempered, what of it?"
Mascot comedic-relief character created by Venat, who hides a lot: "Oh, it's just a tug because it's a lot of aether all at once."

Both can be true, but I feel like Emet-Selch's truth is a bit more than the Lopporits'.

Unless the writers come out and say "we did a retcon" I trust a character who himself has been affected to describe his own affliction than a bunny rabbit on the moon. The tempering is not the same and not as powerful as that which people tempered by tampered primals go through, but they're tempered nonetheless. The limit of it in my opinion seems to be as a very strong suggestion to keep trying to bring him back. But they also praise him as a god, which is traditional tempering and is a bit worrying. That's not even limited to Lahabrea either, all of the Ascians do it together when we see them gather for the first time, Nabriales does it as well when we fight him. Part of that certainly can be attributed to Him saving their people, but considering they of all people should know better than that and know he's not a god and just another complex creation is the scary part.

The timing definitely seems weird though considering that information comes out after talking to Crystal Mom, but it still stands that a character in the previous expansion, written presumably under the same writing director, said clearly in the text that the Ascians are tempered.

[Shuuli]

I just wish they had shown us if Venat did try to explain the things she learned with us to the convocation and we seeing them reject it.

Cause now I just keep asking why did they not use the information we gathered on dynamis? The only reason would be if she did not tell them about the situation. Surely an ex member of the 14th's words would be trustworthy.

I would not have joined the Ascians. We would not learned what we did and we would have died in the end as Meteion's power would have just grown more and more. She would not have stopped until we dead. That was her goal. Might have taken her longer time if we rejoined but eventually it would be looming above our heads.

[QT_Melon]

In other words, the writers wanted to try to get Hydaelyn off the hook despite the fact that they had already wrote themselves into a corner, so they gave a poor and vague explanation that we can deduce nothing from either way.

I mean you're not wrong

It makes the whole story arc in Shadowbringers with Elidibus the starshower and Hydaelyn's voice more confusing imo.

At least Emet was open to actually answering questions and Hydaelyn/Venat pretty much let others speak instead of really explaining things. No real dialog option with her. Not that I am saying she DID NOT say anything but a quite a bit of it was shoveled off to side characters.

[EaraGrace]

That's clearly a major issue given the further mankind advances the less suffering they'll face. The more rare suffering becomes the less inevitable it will be (or at least seem). Eventually humanity will simply reach the state the Ancients were at before, if they don't destroy themselves or are destroyed by something else before that point.

Perhaps, but humanity now has had the experiences they need to know how to approach suffering. The answer is there.

Because whatever arguments she made, they were formulated while hiding the truth of the crisis. They cannot know the issue is unresolved unless Venat tells them why it isn't.

A truth that might’ve destroyed them. They barely handled the Final Days, if they knew what awaited them at the edge of universe they’d fall divided.

She should have done exactly as Midgardsormr did, argue for sedition, and take whatever followers she had and left. As for how, she devised a plan for that very purpose already.

A plan that required thousands of years of research and aether accumulation. And once they get to that other world, then what? There’s no Etheirys to run to.

And why do we immediately jump to thinking that the writers are making excuses. They wrote the scenario, there’s no “right way” for them to have handled something. If they lay out that Zodiark didn’t actively seek temper people but did so just out of virtue of how powerful he was, then that’s that.

[KizuyaKatogami]

A truth that might’ve destroyed them. They barely handled the Final Days, if they knew what awaited them at the edge of universe they’d fall divided.

We don’t know this though. if 6-7 random sundered were able to do it i fail to see why a society of ancient god-like beings would be unable to outside of plot convenience. It’s like how somehow no universes or worlds knew about dynamis. But considering the fields of research they had and the combined effort of emet and venat i’m sure something could’ve been done.

[EaraGrace]

We don’t know this though. if 6-7 random sundered were able to do it i fail to see why a society of ancient god-like beings would be unable to outside of plot convenience. It’s like how somehow no universes or worlds knew about dynamis. But considering the fields of research they had and the combined effort of emet and venat i’m sure something could’ve been done.

I think there’s a large difference between a group of handpicked individuals who could handle it vs a planet wide announcement. Call it plot convenience if you wish, but the fact remains that the Ancients struggled not to panic when faced with mortality. If they knew existence was destined to end, that they would need to face incredible suffering and loss to even make it to Meteion, and even then may fail, how would they react? Venat herself says that many turned to nostalgia and desperate attempts to forget what happened. Would they have made it?

[KizuyaKatogami]

I think there’s a large difference between a group of handpicked individuals who could handle it vs a planet wide announcement. Call it plot convenience if you wish, but the fact remains that the Ancients struggled not to panic when faced with mortality. If they knew existence was destined to end, that they would need to face incredible suffering and loss to even make it to Meteion, and even then may fail, how would they react? Venat herself says that many turned to nostalgia and desperate attempts to forget what happened. Would they have made it?

We know though based on Elpis side quests and Pandaemonium story so far that they did suffer. They knew suffering already. The fact is she didn’t even give them a chance. She talks about hope so much yet she didn’t have any hope in her own people. She instead placed all her hope in someone she had only just met which makes her look even worse.

[thegreatonemal]

We know though based on Elpis side quests and Pandaemonium story so far that they did suffer. They knew suffering already. The fact is she didn’t even give them a chance. She talks about hope so much yet she didn’t have any hope in her own people. She instead placed all her hope in someone she had only just met which makes her look even worse.

You say all this yet forget that their race was simply not capable of fighting against something like Meteion. Part of the reason for the sundering was to give man the means to fight back.