Dragoon Feedback: No dopamine allowed?

[ThorneDynasty]

I will never understand how people equate individual abilities' potencies with "fun". As long as it all works in relation so the rotation makes sense and the overall damage isn't weirdly off-balance with other jobs it's who cares.

[Throrface]

You weirdly refuse to address what was said, so I'll pose you a question: why do you think DNC has a 1060p attack and BRD only has a 600p attack as their strongest skill?

I don't care why. On both BRD and DNC the abilities you refer to stand out reasonably well from their other actions, so I'm totally fine with them. They feel like good, meaty hits.

I will never understand how people equate individual abilities' potencies with "fun". As long as it all works in relation so the rotation makes sense and the overall damage isn't weirdly off-balance with other jobs it's who cares.

I care, but it's alright if you don't.

[ZiraZ]

I will never understand how people equate individual abilities' potencies with "fun". As long as it all works in relation so the rotation makes sense and the overall damage isn't weirdly off-balance with other jobs it's who cares.

It's not really a big potency = fun thing, it's more of a you've got this ability you can only use once per minute but it's not just a timer, you need to build for it and delay it's premature use so you can sync all your cooldowns(or just LC) so that it lands inside your incredibly busy 20 seconds (15 with litany) damage ups window and on top of all that you can't even single weave next to that ability because the animation is 2 hours long so it's technically much weaker than Heaven's Thrust which can easily accommodate dual weaving during your most crucial part of the rotation that is so busy you can't even get all your oGCDs out if you pool 2 spineshatter dives unless you have extremely low ping and can dual weave jumps.

To compare it with GNB's double down, which I'm still laughing a tank gets such an ability just like that which can be used at the mere cost of 2 cartridges on cd.
Imagine if double down was instead at the end of your Gnashing Fang combo, and once used you were incapable of weaving anything with it because animation reasons, and then on top of that, instead of doing 1200 potency, it did just 600, basically just a tad bit higher than Wicked Talon and on top of that it can only be unlocked after your 2nd Gnashing Fang combo, so it can never be used in the opener, you have to wait 1 minute into the fight to unlock it.

That's stardiver, DRG's amazing ultimate ability.

[Throrface]

I don’t play Dragoon much, but isn’t Stardiver AoE, ranges, and off the GCD? How in the world can you compare that to your third melee combo, which is ST, melee range, and on the GCD?

I can see what you’re asking for, and I agree I find Dragoon a little boring. But that’s the gameplay — you do damage spread out over all your GCD and oGCDs, the latter of which you have MANY. It’s a busy job with a straight forward rotation. You play the class if you like weaving.

I compared Stardiver and Heaven's Trust in terms of how good they feel to push, to me. I also disclosed those parameters in my opening post. Within my set of parameters the abilities are perfectly comparable.

I think you can perfectly preserve the Dragoon gameplay style while also making one of the abilities feel particularly satisfying by just shifting a few numbers around. I am not suggesting any adjustments to gameplay style here.

It's not really a big potency = fun thing, it's more of a you've got this ability you can only use once per minute but it's not just a timer, you need to build for it and delay it's premature use so you can sync all your cooldowns(or just LC) so that it lands inside your incredibly busy 20 seconds (15 with litany) damage ups window and on top of all that you can't even single weave next to that ability because the animation is 2 hours long so it's technically much weaker than Heaven's Thrust which can easily accommodate dual weaving during your most crucial part of the rotation that is so busy you can't even get all your oGCDs out if you pool 2 spineshatter dives unless you have extremely low ping and can dual weave jumps.

To compare it with GNB's double down, which I'm still laughing a tank gets such an ability just like that which can be used at the mere cost of 2 cartridges on cd.
Imagine if double down was instead at the end of your Gnashing Fang combo, and once used you were incapable of weaving anything with it because animation reasons, and then on top of that, instead of doing 1200 potency, it did just 600, basically just a tad bit higher than Wicked Talon and on top of that it can only be unlocked after your 2nd Gnashing Fang combo, so it can never be used in the opener, you have to wait 1 minute into the fight to unlock it.

That's stardiver, DRG's amazing ultimate ability.

Yeah, I agree.

One argument I have made that I consider quite important is that Dragoon does have abilities that create the illusion of great power, but when compared to their other abilities they really don't have it. When you have an ability that LOOKS like you are a literal nuke dropping from the sky but the ability delivers measly damage, it feels bad, unsatisfying, deceiving. When you had to work to it through a resource system, that feeling is amplified.

[Equitable_Remedy]

I will never understand how people equate individual abilities' potencies with "fun". As long as it all works in relation so the rotation makes sense and the overall damage isn't weirdly off-balance with other jobs it's who cares.

But my Hyosho Ranryu crits...