Other MMOs and their History

[Alklios]

@ IdowhatIwant

I had to accept the inevitable that FF14 had more of what I could enjoy, leaving WoW as a 90% of the time PvP'er to a game's PvP is just a mega zerg fest with little individual difference made in the match.

It took me several years to become accustomed to FF14 and actually explore other facets I enjoyed, and I can say my blood pressure about playing an MMO has dropped significantly.

I believe your points efforting are valid but I do not see the evidence to them.

In my experience the current WoW melee experience has been run up to enemy hit 1-4 and repeat. Rogue CC has been thrown out of necessity, people scream at you for wanting to CC mobs instead of RUSH RUSH RUSH PULL PULL. Because content is so casual nothing is like experiencing Magister's Terrace heroic for the first time.
Pally/Shammy utility has been thrown away.

In FF14 I can tell completely who is int he party from the unique buffs and debuffs going around. The different degrees of support. Knowing how my tanks are going to mitigate their damage because I know how holmgang, hallowed ground, superbolide, and living dead all work separately.
I know which tanks have weaker HoTs than most and others having burst healing.
I can tell how dungeons are going to vary in runs and smoothness depending on makeup and which class excels in AoE vs Single target or even group buffs.

To me, these classes represent much more flavor than Modern WoW. The 8 Seals, the 7 Auras, the huge list of totems and various buffs are all gone.

It's walk up to enemy, whack it with X-strike ability, stormstrike, mortal strike, crusader strike, etc, repeat 4 button rotation.

[Miles064]

@ IdowhatIwant

I had to accept the inevitable that FF14 had more of what I could enjoy, leaving WoW as a 90% of the time PvP'er to a game's PvP is just a mega zerg fest with little individual difference made in the match.

It took me several years to become accustomed to FF14 and actually explore other facets I enjoyed, and I can say my blood pressure about playing an MMO has dropped significantly.

I believe your points efforting are valid but I do not see the evidence to them.

In my experience the current WoW melee experience has been run up to enemy hit 1-4 and repeat. Rogue CC has been thrown out of necessity, people scream at you for wanting to CC mobs instead of RUSH RUSH RUSH PULL PULL. Because content is so casual nothing is like experiencing Magister's Terrace heroic for the first time.
Pally/Shammy utility has been thrown away.

In FF14 I can tell completely who is int he party from the unique buffs and debuffs going around. The different degrees of support. Knowing how my tanks are going to mitigate their damage because I know how holmgang, hallowed ground, superbolide, and living dead all work separately.
I know which tanks have weaker HoTs than most and others having burst healing.
I can tell how dungeons are going to vary in runs and smoothness depending on makeup and which class excels in AoE vs Single target or even group buffs.

To me, these classes represent much more flavor than Modern WoW. The 8 Seals, the 7 Auras, the huge list of totems and various buffs are all gone.

It's walk up to enemy, whack it with X-strike ability, stormstrike, mortal strike, crusader strike, etc, repeat 4 button rotation.

You havent played WoW in a while right? I've used more "non dps" utility in the last 2 wow expacs than i have in the entire time i've been playing ff14(started before HW came out). Cap and earthbind totems on necrotic weeks to help the tank kite, taking storm bolt over double time to help interrupt dangerous casts( channeled stuns, a spell that hits the whole party with shadow dmg and puts a undispellable debuff that increases shadow dmg, etc), kidney shotting the beasts that get enraged in the one of the shadowlands dungeons( or dispelling it on other classes as that buff is an enrage), etc. Sure "sap square and dps skull" is long gone and you dont really see these commonly used til base mythics at least but wow still has this.

Honestly the thing i miss most about wow is the combat, the flexibility from the talents rows, the idea the 2 of us can both be playing arms war or frost mage but have small differences that are not just how much stats we have. That isn't to say they were always well balanced but if you are not the top .5% or w/e why do you care unless it is super bad(pretty sure glacial spike was a dps loss vs not selecting anything in that row for a bit which is not ok).

That being said when I have asked for "something like mythic+" i didn't want mythic+ as is just dungeons content worth running that you could keep going higher in. Doesn't need to have keystones, or gear drops that scale with dungeon lvl, or 3 chesting, or any of that. Hell Torghast is just ff deep dungeons+ so if SE were to make thier own deep dungeon+ it should turn out solid as long as it isnt spammed with fates. I do admit I liked torghast because it felt like risk of rain but with a WoW twist, which isn't going to be everyones cup of tea. I don't see SE making the mistake of forcing it on you though, as that goes against what they have built up and I support it.

I like the combat in this game. I just want more stuff to fight in this game that isn't mindless fates, weekly lockouts, or painfully easy "expert" dungeons. Is that so bad?

[IdowhatIwant]

@Alklios

WoW Dps design is bad and has been for some time. FFXIV dps design is decent at best but most play the same. Best example I can give on this was a friend was asking me about reaper. I told him is basically plays like melee machinest. You have a gauge to fill using 1-2-3 or a CD/CDGCD to fill it faster. Once the gauge is built you go fast for a bit. Sure there are some differences but the similarities like machinest second gauge summons a robot to go mindlessly do damage, and reapers first gauge is used to build it's go fast gauge but the game play style shares more than it differs.

WoW tank design is very unique where each one has different methods of mitigating damage vs FFXIV every tank has maybe 2 or 3 unique CDs but essentially function to mitigate damage through the same means. Your example holmgang, hallowed ground, superbolide, and living dead they are all the same thing with subtle differences and one having 0 use in solo play. WoW tanks, you have DK which is a more reactive tank healing up and shielding itself after taking damage. War which sets damage shields on it self to mitigate damage as well as blocking damage with it's shield. Monk which staggers damage into a dot and is able to completely get rid of some of that damage. Pally self healing attacks and focus on blocking with it's shield. Druid high armor stats large HP pool. See FF had these things before but they were removed in place of the more homogenized designed tanks we see today.

FFXIV healers I am sorry, all your skills do pretty much the same thing with different names. Where WoW healers all play fairly differently. Disc priest, shields people and heals those that have been shielded based on there damage dealing spells. Druid HoTs. Pally melee healer. Shaman / Holy priest more pure healing. Again we used to have this sort of thing in FF but homogenization.

Now I am not saying these classes need to be complex design, or difficult, but they need more unique flair than a single buff or cd.

FF is very rush rush, most dungeons people are doing wall to wall pulls and that has been going on since ARR. I don't see a big difference between the games in that aspect so I wonder if we have been playing the same game. I see just as much bad crap happen with players in FF as I have in WoW. Best example of this just look at your party finder now. I will guarantee many groups will want people to be geared to ilvl 565+ to do ex trials that were designed to be done at ilvl 560. The proof they are designed for ilvl 560 is in the actual requirements to queue for it(not that anyone uses this function for ex). Surely people remember the skip soar or disband groups for Zurvan back in HW? Is what you are doing is being biased for FF and going back to x is good y is bad with out looking deeper at each. We can't always just praise FF devs because we enjoy current FF we also have to give the FF devs constructive criticism because we want to continue to enjoy it and see it improve because it is not perfect.

Hope some of this was the evidence you were looking for.

[Alklios]

@IdowhatIwant,

By all means speak the reasons that FF14 devs could improve their games. There are some major points I'd make to a thread asking for them.

Here I wanted to unload a tight kept trunk of experiences and salt encountered in the major MMO title AKA WoW from 2016 onwards and explain the history of what made it good for me the prior decade before.

My stances in this post are very strictly anti-new WoW player wants backed with alot of salt and disdain for being run out of my favorite game as I didn't have the time to commit to the Borrowed Power grind and all progressive proposals to go back to the way things were spat on and laughed at by kids that ruined an epic game.

It may be a point to agree to disagree which of the 2 has more flavor.

Compelling me to play every day for hours a day and forced PVE, combined with my old player demographic being completely ignored and presented with a bandaid of classic I didn't ask for, and being further insulted and belittled by 'hardcore' players lacking any achievement or accomplishment coming in after 70% of the game skills had been pruned causing the skill ceiling to meet the skill floor lost my sub. I stuck it out for a long time as recently as a year ago.

Everything the current Modern players want in the game being transferred to FF14, it is not realistic. It will not be found. The devs do not believe in throwaway content or imbalancing utilities so much so many classes become utterly useless.

Rushing, is in regards to players burning content and refusing to occupy themselves in another form or fashion calling a game in the end 'terrible'. It's the same as chugging a good alcohol with a decent flavor and spitting a review it tasted terrible and now you feel horrible.

Modern WoW players and devs took away a great joy from me and millions of players and spat in their faces wanting a return to prior progressive ways. I want no part in it again. Nor this game to be any modicum like it.