The Bizarre Lack of Development and Pathos Concerning Zenos [6.0 Spoilers]

[Lyth]

They haven't released a Zenos minion yet, so he'll be fine.

He should send in an application to the Scions just for the laugh. We don't have anyone on the team who can properly alternate from deadpan voice of common sense to extremely intimidating. Every so often, when you're in the middle of negotiating something, he could just put on that fanatical grin, prompting everyone to put their hands to their weapons. It would also be interesting to see his dynamic with Alisaie, given that they already have a bit of banter going over Azem.

[Erendis]

If they release Zenos minion before Emet-Selch, I'll be mad >.<

[Elysidelphi]

They haven't released a Zenos minion yet, so he'll be fine.

He should send in an application to the Scions just for the laugh. We don't have anyone on the team who can properly alternate from deadpan voice of common sense to extremely intimidating. Every so often, when you're in the middle of negotiating something, he could just put on that fanatical grin, prompting everyone to put their hands to their weapons. It would also be interesting to see his dynamic with Alisaie, given that they already have a bit of banter going over Azem.

I mean we have minions of Scions who are still alive such as Alisaie, Alphinaud, Y'shtola, Thancred I think... Or of random NPCs who are not Scions like Cirina, Sadu, Magnai, Nanamo, etc. We also have minions of enemies who are still alive such as the Cloud of Darkness. So not sure what having or not having minions of a certain character even means anymore.

But yeah, such a fun idea about Zenos joining the Scions and acting like that!

[Ignimortis]

Wasn't that the whole point of Zenos' arc in EW? He even says outright that he has no reason for what he does other than to fight WoL. If you don't like it, too bad, he doesn't care - his words, not mine.

And honestly, that blunt unwillingness to be sympathetic or redeemable really improved him in my eyes. The fact that he came to understand WoL better in EW also helped - in StB, Zenos claims that we're just like him, that we only seek the thrill of battle. In EW, he grasps the fact that WoL is a hero and does many things not out of bloodlust or seeking a challenge — after all, we wouldn't do a lot of things we've done if we were just looking for the next good fight.

Besides. his adjusted understanding of the WoL, as well as willingness to help us, means that he did evolve in a way. His new reasoning that heroics, while a major part of WoL's motivations, are not all of WoL's motivations, was extremely on point for me. After all, I enjoy combat in the game. I even find myself disappointed if an enemy does too quickly before I can use at least a few cool abilities. So...smirk and accept yourself - and him - for what you are? Don't mind if I do.

Also, Zenos was the perfect answer to EW's question about the meaning of life. His life has but one meaning, and he found it himself, and that's it. Life is what you make of it, nothing more and nothing less.

TL;DR: EW made me appreciate Zenos a lot more. He might not be as sympathetic or pitiable as other villains, but he finally found his groove. Not every villain needs to be like Emet-Selch or Elidibus.

[Denishia]

Zenos went from my least favorite character in XIV (Emet firmly has that bottom position now) to redeeming his role in the story somewhat by thematically fitting into the debate around nihilism as one of the complementary facets, and while I still wish there was a stronger option to at least try to walk away from that mandated final duel with him, said duel was the only other time besides Shinryu where fighting Zenos wasn't a chore. If Zenos returns in any way after that ending, it undoes the scraps of acceptance and tolerance I have for his character. And I was finally experiencing this emotion of 'not being bored and disgusted by the mere mention of Zenos' - don't take that away from me! *laughs*

[Elysidelphi]

In my opinion, Zenos is set up to return. There are way too many hints and clues around him, and way too many unanswered questions. Yoshi-P absolutely loves Zenos, the Japanese audiences love Zenos, Yoshi-P also loves good mysteries and slowly and deliberately building up a story, a mystery. All those clues and hints about Zenos will lead somewhere, there are too many to just be ignored forever. And Zenos might finally receive proper development, in-depth, the way the Ascians did in Shadowbringers and Endwalker, after they too, felt, for many years, as very boring villains/characters.

[Anonymoose]

To articulate and earlier thought a bit better, Ishikawa-san once upon a time explained that she is not afraid to kill or resurrect anyone if she believes the story has use for them and can be improved by it. (Whether she takes into account the logical/emotional tax incurred on the viewer by not knowing what they can count on in the story, I'm unsure.)

To not show Zenos - the man who has nearly cut off his own head and lived - dissolve into mist and subsequently articulate the circumstances of his demise, I see that as....quantum narrative.

Endwalker spent an extraordinary amount of text tiles clarifying and repeating things making sure the minimal number of people could possibly inaccurately interpret things that were meant to be understood a specitic way. (Hells, sometimes the characters just won't. shut. up.) To not do it here feels...deliberate.

I see Zenos as simultaneously intended to be dead and intended to return.

To me, he is simultaneously dead and only-mostly-dead until we observe him and collapse the Zenos wave function.

[Vyrerus]

For what it's worth, his body was still partially transformed by his Enshrouded Voidsent partner. Namely his left hand and side garment. Maybe they'll bring him back in the Void recovery quests or something.

[MoofiaBossVal]

I'm not keen on this modern idea that "villains can't be evil for the sake of being evil. They have to have REASONS and a sympathetic backstory!".

Sometimes people are simply evil, nothing more. That's why I liked Zenos. In a story oversaturated with tragic sob stories and characters mulling over their master plans, here you have a serial killer who just wants his big fight and throws a wrench into things.

Fighting along Zenos would have been cool but I wouldn't have wanted to have seen him redeemed. I also don't want him to come back from the dead. To me, one of FFXIV's big selling points over its competitors is that the villains actually die and stay dead.

My only disappointment with Zenos is that he spent an entire patch cycle and an expansion just sitting around doing nothing, rather than going out being a terrifying force.

[Kesey]

I'm not keen on this modern idea that "villains can't be evil for the sake of being evil. They have to have REASONS and a sympathetic backstory!".

Sometimes people are simply evil, nothing more. That's why I liked Zenos. In a story oversaturated with tragic sob stories and characters mulling over their master plans, here you have a serial killer who just wants his big fight and throws a wrench into things.

Fighting along Zenos would have been cool but I wouldn't have wanted to have seen him redeemed. I also don't want him to come back from the dead. To me, one of FFXIV's big selling points over its competitors is that the villains actually die and stay dead.

My only disappointment with Zenos is that he spent an entire patch cycle and an expansion just sitting around doing nothing, rather than going out being a terrifying force.

Villains evil for evil's sake isn't good storytelling. The reality is the only entity who is evil for evil's sake is Satan and even he was retconned by Milton to be a tragic hero. It's just not realistic in any shape or form. So the rule is more like "write a justification as to why the villain wants to commit this atrocious act". Remember that story telling only moves forward with character development and if characters don't change then the story will always feel flat.

What really makes Zenos terrible in this expansion is he only figures out at the last minute that if I help the WOL who has spurned me 'my fight' to kill his other opponent, then he'll have the time to fight me. Not great character development with grade school playground logic.

Worse the dialogue options don't even give us the player or WOL the option to say no. SO many threads were made before this expansion saying the WOL and Zenos are foils. They aren't and this expansion proves it, because the two of them can only be "foiled" if the WOL realizes he isn't the animal that Zenos is and walks away from the fight. And we didn't even have that option. Literally nothing is learned by the player, the WOL, or Zenos over this whole situation.

And since he didn't move the plot, as that was all Fandaniel, Zenos shouldn't have been in this expansion at all. Glad he reversed death so we could be like, "Cool scythe, bro."