People advertising they're running Parsers

[Saraide]

Regardless of a parser not modifying any code and the whole "Don't ask don't tell", I think parsing should be a bannable offense. There is no point in needing to run a parser at all. It's literally only a tool to feed your own ego on FFLogs, belittle others and weed out players who aren't performing to said parsers desirable level.

Have you ever considered making mistakes and, get this, learning from them?

[Yahallo]

Regardless of a parser not modifying any code and the whole "Don't ask don't tell", I think parsing should be a bannable offense. There is no point in needing to run a parser at all. It's literally only a tool to feed your own ego on FFLogs, belittle others and weed out players who aren't performing to said parsers desirable level.

Have you Savage Raided before? Because based on your comment, I don't think you have, nor really talked to someone that has about the subject at hand, and thus you don't fully understand/comprehend the topic. Unless they remove dps checks, there will always be a need to have someone in your raid group run a parser. Everyone needs to do their fair share of dps and if someone is consistently doing below that, it needs to be identified and rectified in the group. Without parsing, you won't be able to figure out who is having issues so you can help them. Just because someone isn't performing at the necessary level, doesn't mean they will be shamed upon or kicked out immediately. If you actually did raid in a static, you'll find that it is very rare for someone to belittle you for poor performance; generally, they'll try to help you improve first.

Sure some groups will check you on fflogs and require a certain level of performance before letting you join them, but that doesn't mean they will belittle you; just means they have a higher base standard which is perfectly fine, it's their static. As long as they aren't trying to humiliate you, they aren't doing anything wrong. It's like getting a job application rejected by an employer.

The issue is not parsing, the issue are toxic people. Parsing doesn't mean people toxic; they would be toxic with or without parsing.

[CosmicCoqui]

Have you Savage Raided before? Because based on your comment, I don't think you have, nor really talked to someone that has about the subject at hand, and thus you don't fully understand/comprehend the topic. Unless they remove dps checks, there will always be a need to have someone in your raid group run a parser. Everyone needs to do their fair share of dps and if someone is consistently doing below that, it needs to be identified and rectified in the group. Without parsing, you won't be able to figure out who is having issues so you can help them. Just because someone isn't performing at the necessary level, doesn't mean they will be shamed upon or kicked out immediately. If you actually did raid in a static, you'll find that it is very rare for someone to belittle you for poor performance; generally, they'll try to help you improve first.

Sure some groups will check you on fflogs and require a certain level of performance before letting you join them, but that doesn't mean they will belittle you; just means they have a higher base standard which is perfectly fine, it's their static. As long as they aren't trying to humiliate you, they aren't doing anything wrong. It's like getting a job application rejected by an employer.

The issue is not parsing, the issue are toxic people. Parsing doesn't mean people toxic; they would be toxic with or without parsing.

Ehh as someone who used to do savage content and was part of a few statics, dps checks aren't even as strict as they used to be. Content in general was made easier after the 2nd round of alex sav raids and only made easier since. Also saying it's used to "Help" someone out in your group is also being sort of dishonest to what is the usual case, the person is usually kicked and not really told what they did wrong. As for the higher standard bit, well any static that has to rely on 3rd party stuff that isn't parser(wont say what but assume you know what) to clear stuff, cant really claim to have higher base standards.

Also this is in the TOS "2.5 Data Mining. You may not intercept, mine or otherwise collect information from the Game using unauthorized third party software.". Given how people say it works (I'm on ps5 so going by what others said and what I have researched), it is considered against the TOS given it does intercept information of the game. It's it can still get you banned in game just by mentioning it.

[Yahallo]

Ehh as someone who used to do savage content and was part of a few statics, dps checks aren't even as strict as they used to be. Content in general was made easier after the 2nd round of alex sav raids and only made easier since. Also saying it's used to "Help" someone out in your group is also being sort of dishonest to what is the usual case, the person is usually kicked and not really told what they did wrong. As for the higher standard bit, well any static that has to rely on 3rd party stuff that isnt parser(wont say what but assume you know what) to clear stuff, cant really claim to have higher base standards.

That is the opposite of what I've seen, and while I may have not raided earlier on in the game's life span, I kept in touch with people who did so I could join them when I finally had the time (which I do now). I seen statics help their members far more often than not. Also, in regards to DPS checks, yes it was made easier after Alexander, but that doesn't mean the issue is completely gone; it only lowered the bar and is still very much fail able. I've seen plenty of people not realizing they are making a mistake in their rotation until someone pointed it out to them because it was identified by their dps; no one chewed them out, they just offered them help.

Also, I don't think you carefully read my post because I never mentioned any other third party stuff; I've been solely talking about parsers. "Any static that has to rely on 3rd party stuff that isnt parser," What other third party stuff did I mention, because I am pretty sure I was just talking about parsers. Unless you are talking about logs, which I consider to be part of parsers, because that website is just a collection of parser data.

[CosmicCoqui]

That is the opposite of what I've seen, and while I may have not raided earlier on in the game's life span, I kept in touch with people who did so I could join them when I finally had the time (which I do now). I seen statics help their members far more often than not. Also, in regards to DPS checks, yes it was made easier after Alexander, but that doesn't mean the issue is completely gone; it only lowered the bar and is still very much fail able. I've seen plenty of people not realizing they are making a mistake in their rotation until someone pointed it out to them because it was identified by their dps; no one chewed them out, they just offered them help.

Also, I don't think you carefully read my post because I never mentioned any other third party stuff; I've been solely talking about parsers. "Any static that has to rely on 3rd party stuff that isnt parser," What other third party stuff did I mention, because I am pretty sure I was just talking about parsers. Unless you are talking about logs, which I consider to be part of parsers, because that website is just a collection of parser data.

Well I never said you mentioned any other 3rd party program. What i was saying was based on the higher standard comment you made. Statics that usually require a specific parse tend to also be ones that use call out "stuff". So by having to rely on such a thing, they can't really claim to have higher standards given they use a crutch like that. Wasn't saying you said it at all, so I apologize if it came off that way, was just going by what i seen over the years. Cause its a bit hypocritical if any groups if they only want certain parses but also rely on that "thing" to even clear content.

As for checks, as long as people do the SSS and can clear it in the set time, well they can do the damage required to clear the content the SSS is for. Rotations wise, again well SSS is what comes into play really. Ppl also do just pure theory craft which also leads to rotations being created without a parser. Using both would easily let one do what dmg they have to, to clear the content without a parser even needed.

[VelKallor]

Have you ever considered making mistakes and, get this, learning from them?

Saraide, Ill answer this.

We all make mistakes, we all stuff up in one way or another and yes we do learn from those mistakes. What we do not need, want, or appreciate is having our noses rubbed in it PUBLICALLY.

Nor is it necessary to get the point across.

I said this before, but Ill restate the principle. Publically humiliating or embarrassing someone does zero to address any errors, whatever you have to say that you THINK is constructive no longer matters, as whoever you are berating IS NOT LISTENING to a single word.

All they see and hear is a loudmouth, tactless creep.

Staff management manual, book one, page one.

It is not what you say, it is how you say it, to whom, and where.

[DubiousDisk]

Not me, silently hoping to figure out how to use a parser so I can practice my rotations to improve.

*winkwinknudgenudgepleaseiambadatinstallingaddons*

[Yahallo]

Well I never said you mentioned any other 3rd party program. What i was saying was based on the higher standard comment you made. Statics that usually require a specific parse tend to also be ones that use call out "stuff". So by having to rely on such a thing, they can't really claim to have higher standards given they use a crutch like that. Wasn't saying you said it at all, so I apologize if it came off that way, was just going by what i seen over the years. Cause its a bit hypocritical if any groups if they only want certain parses but also rely on that "thing" to even clear content.

As for checks, as long as people do the SSS and can clear it in the set time, well they can do the damage required to clear the content the SSS is for. Rotations wise, again well SSS is what comes into play really. Ppl also do just pure theory craft which also leads to rotations being created without a parser. Using both would easily let one do what dmg they have to, to clear the content without a parser even needed.

SSS can let you get away with somethings that you wouldn't be able to in an actual fight. Part of the rotation optimization is adapting it to the fight at hand, and figuring out what you are doing with that downtime, or adjusting it so you don't end up losing a GCD when you don't have to. Theory crafters use parsers to test out their rotations. Parsing is a necessary part of raiding, always has been and always will be. SSS isn't a good enough substitute. It is possible to clear SSS, but still not be able to adapt to the actual fight.

As for the higher standard being hypocritical, it's more of choosing how they want to spend time. Training someone is a time investment, time that the static may not have. Sometimes the static loses a member due to real life and they want to get a replacement that is on par rather than having to go back and spend time training someone up to be the replacement. It's not really a crutch, but just wanting someone at the same level you are. Also, I am pretty sure there are plenty that refuse people cordially, you just don't hear about it because people talk about the bad more than they talk about the good. Again, parsers are not the issue, people are the issue.

Saraide, Ill answer this.

We all make mistakes, we all stuff up in one way or another and yes we do learn from those mistakes. What we do not need, want, or appreciate is having our noses rubbed in it PUBLICALLY.

Nor is it necessary to get the point across.

I said this before, but Ill restate the principle. Publically humiliating or embarrassing someone does zero to address any errors, whatever you have to say that you THINK is constructive no longer matters, as whoever you are berating IS NOT LISTENING to a single word.

All they see and hear is a loudmouth, tactless creep.

Staff management manual, book one, page one.

It is not what you say, it is how you say it, to whom, and where.

If you read EtherRose's post, they didn't care about whether people were public about it or not, they just wanted anyone who used it to be banned regardless of how they used it, even if they never mentioned it. Nothing about those who humiliate or berate others and the like, just if you use a parser ban period. They are claiming that parsers are all negative and no positive, so your response to Saraide isn't really valid considering what they were responding to. So this particular argument at the moment isn't about how you saying something, people are currently arguing over just using a parser right now.

[VelKallor]

So this particular argument at the moment isn't about how you saying something, people are currently arguing over just using a parser right now.

*sigh*

As long as you keep it to yourself, I have zero issue with it.

[Saraide]

Saraide, Ill answer this.

We all make mistakes, we all stuff up in one way or another and yes we do learn from those mistakes. What we do not need, want, or appreciate is having our noses rubbed in it PUBLICALLY.

Nor is it necessary to get the point across.

I said this before, but Ill restate the principle. Publically humiliating or embarrassing someone does zero to address any errors, whatever you have to say that you THINK is constructive no longer matters, as whoever you are berating IS NOT LISTENING to a single word.

All they see and hear is a loudmouth, tactless creep.

Staff management manual, book one, page one.

It is not what you say, it is how you say it, to whom, and where.

Please follow your own advice then. Read the post I responded to and then try to berate me.