My humble take on new SMN

[Jirah]

86 is definitely when this job gets interesting and stops being dotless bard
that said frame work is there has potential lets hope they dont MCH it up

Let’s be honest, they will and as few and dim as “mashonist” mains are they’ll go from “it’s a good base to improve” and do a 180 toward acting like
a RDM “it’s perfect as is, doesn’t need any adjustments” and I can very Clearly see the parallels between them and new “Susmoner” mains from “it’s a start!” To later in 7.0 “it was perfect the way it is, no adjustments needed”

But the difference is SMN has a equally strong Advocate base, which will save it or enhance it . Something MCH didn’t have in SHB which later caused it to stagnate and ,in all honesty, get worse with Queen being even more inept

[ServantNaoya]

MCH SB here and I despise the MCH 5.0 rework to this day, and it didn’t even accomplish a new order of mains their population declined literally after the next big job came out or never really had as strong following to begin with. And judging by SMN change it’s not looking good in 7.0 when they ignore the “perfect job” and give it like Ruin V or something benign and useless as mechanics go. I’m not as critical of SMN due to me not really maining it but the patterns is recognizable. Reworks are a curse, the true blasphemy

Agreed there. I loved MCH back in HW, and then SB, but then they gutted it completely, much like they did SCH. I guess SMN was next in line after SCH. SCH was my favorite in HW and SB, then after they gutted it I switched to maining SMN, and now they gutted that too. It's been kind of demoralizing, honestly, which is why I really don't want SMN to be left as it is. It needs more, really really badly.

[lulunami]

The general idea and theme over the new SMN is okay. Summoning the primals is cool with neat aesthetics. Considering how bad SMN was to play at the start of 4.0 and 5.0 (Stormblood and Shadowbringers), this version of SMN is sort of acceptable.

However, I think giving SMN back a spell like Bio (DoT) would make the job slightly better to play before the Lv.86 primal attack upgrades. The game play is too monotonous just spamming Pet Ruin. Imagine playing Bard without DoTs or Bloodletter and only spamming Heavy Shot.

There is a lot of pressure to rush through all the red, yellow, and green summons and their attacks, which feels bad during downtime if Bahamut/Phoenix timer comes back up. It feels like you are constantly going through a 60s loop of rushing and just going into Bahamut/Phoenix over the rest of your summons since the cool-down timer forces you to do so. Ruin IV feels like a spell you are forced to use every 60s, and I just wonder where it fits with all the primal attacks during downtime. Just use it before you lose it?

The personal shield and aoe damage buff lockout still feel awkward to use considering how you have to rush through red, yellow, and green summons.

The developer team needs to adjust summoner game play a bit. There is something about new SMN that is just lacking.

[Tulzscha]

Ruin IV feels like a spell you are forced to use every 60s, and I just wonder where it fits with all the primal attacks during downtime. Just use it before you lose it?

I just try and squeeze them into the raid buff. For the opener just dump it after Bahamut, after that use the 2nd Energy Drain during Phoenix (and 1 min buffs) with about 50s left on your buff's cd then hold onto Ruin 4 + the Festers until your next raid buff, use Ruin 4 before Bahamut then get another to use after. Just have to make sure you use up all the stuff before hitting Energy Drain again and use Ruin 4s outside of demis.

The shield is weird being unusable half the time but it also lasts a while so hey that's one thing new SMN has to plan for I guess.

[aveyond-dreams]

However, I think giving SMN back a spell like Bio (DoT) would make the job slightly better to play before the Lv.86 primal attack upgrades. The game play is too monotonous just spamming Pet Ruin. Imagine playing Bard without DoTs or Bloodletter and only spamming Heavy Shot.

Again if you want Bio back? Wait for Necromancer. We do not need to see dots return to Summoner. Poison magic is not the point of the job. We deserve something better. Give us something cooler like Shiva's ice bow attack that was mistakenly given to Blue Mage to Summoner, or something along those lines. Also, getting rid of Bard's ridiculous dot-procs has now made the class amazing to play, because I no longer have to wait on rng and now aoeing feels great.

[aveyond-dreams]

(accidental double post)

[ServantNaoya]

The general idea and theme over the new SMN is okay. Summoning the primals is cool with neat aesthetics. Considering how bad SMN was to play at the start of 4.0 and 5.0 (Stormblood and Shadowbringers), this version of SMN is sort of acceptable.

However, I think giving SMN back a spell like Bio (DoT) would make the job slightly better to play before the Lv.86 primal attack upgrades. The game play is too monotonous just spamming Pet Ruin. Imagine playing Bard without DoTs or Bloodletter and only spamming Heavy Shot.

There is a lot of pressure to rush through all the red, yellow, and green summons and their attacks, which feels bad during downtime if Bahamut/Phoenix timer comes back up. It feels like you are constantly going through a 60s loop of rushing and just going into Bahamut/Phoenix over the rest of your summons since the cool-down timer forces you to do so. Ruin IV feels like a spell you are forced to use every 60s, and I just wonder where it fits with all the primal attacks during downtime. Just use it before you lose it?

The personal shield and aoe damage buff lockout still feel awkward to use considering how you have to rush through red, yellow, and green summons.

The developer team needs to adjust summoner game play a bit. There is something about new SMN that is just lacking.

Personally, I tend to use Ruin 4 in between the Ifrit spells just to keep things moving a bit, and facilitate a Quick Cast for the second one. But yeah, Ruin 4 is kind of a "throw it anywhere so long as it's not in Demi phase" kinda button. It exists. Like Fester, it feels very tacked on and doesn't really synergize with the rest of the new toolkit in any meaningful way. I still think personally that the 86 primal flow attacks should come WAY earlier, maybe weaker versions. That would alleviate the class feeling so braindead until then, and then they could actually build upon that foundation. Level 90 SMN feels more like base to build on than a full on class.

[KatsuraJun]

lol

people weren't kidding about new SMN. literally all my ST offensive buttons fit on a single hotbar. It's legitimately easier than a healer DPS "rotation" because at least that has a DoT to watch and cast times to deal with.

I can accept that SMN needed an identity rework to be a summoner and not DoT mage, but the whole design of it is completely half-baked.

[Corbeau]

Ruin IV gives you more flexibility in movement, primarily but not exclusively in ruby. Same with Swiftcast; it's a damage boost in ruby (or, in some compositions' openers, emerald due to raid buff snapshotting) but if you need an absurd amount of sustained movement you can pop it on emerald for two full primal phases of complete freedom.

[godvivec]

lol

people weren't kidding about new SMN. literally all my ST offensive buttons fit on a single hotbar. It's legitimately easier than a healer DPS "rotation" because at least that has a DoT to watch and cast times to deal with.

I can accept that SMN needed an identity rework to be a summoner and not DoT mage, but the whole design of it is completely half-baked.

My biggest issue with it. There is no gameplay to improve. You just spam ruin in between spamming whatever summon is up. There NEEDS to be something to manage, or fill in the gaps. Something to make the class a little more entertaining to use. It's so barebones it's not even funny...Let's not even mention that any of the okay features are locked behind almost maxed level. Hope you don't plan to have fun with the class in the first 85 levels... (seriously wth square?)