(Spoilers) Why are dungeons so under-tuned when...

[RavenSaint]

I've ended up going through End Days several times, destroyed gear. As a healer, it is rough, but doable if you are quick on your toes. I go repair gear, come back to the Final Day portal and set up for the Big Boss 8-man fight. Now I can only Q for End Day yet again. Duty finder and the area I am supposed to be able to go into Final Day will only send me to End Days duty. WTF? Am I to go into Final Day in severe damaged or broken gear as a healer?

I have been healing with this character since I was able to get Astrologian. No problems until this duty, End Days, for damage on gear in basic MSQ duties. This Duty for Endwalker end quest, I am getting frustrated enough to just go level a DPS to go through this mess.

[Shurrikhan]

I actually think this is a horrible example for this. While I would agree that the change wasn't needed to Coincounter, he was the only dungeon boss in the game(I think) that didn't have telegraphs.

He was by no means the only boss not to have telegraphs and by the time one did Aurum Vale, one would have already been exposed to those exact skills from MSQ and FATE mobs.

[ssunny2008]

I've ended up going through End Days several times, destroyed gear. As a healer, it is rough, but doable if you are quick on your toes. I go repair gear, come back to the Final Day portal and set up for the Big Boss 8-man fight. Now I can only Q for End Day yet again. Duty finder and the area I am supposed to be able to go into Final Day will only send me to End Days duty. WTF? Am I to go into Final Day in severe damaged or broken gear as a healer?

I have been healing with this character since I was able to get Astrologian. No problems until this duty, End Days, for damage on gear in basic MSQ duties. This Duty for Endwalker end quest, I am getting frustrated enough to just go level a DPS to go through this mess.

The dungeon is not harder to heal than the others. It´s just up to the players if they´re able to move out of the aoes or not.

You don´t have to repeat the dungeon to start with the trial. I guess you still had it signed in the dungeon-finder and it just popped up earlier than than the trial.


Btw no need to write it down in 3 or more threads, when you opened one about this topic.

[Jirah]

I utterly and profoundly disagree with all the hyperbole and exaggerated defenses on this matter

No this is not a “it’s easy” argument it’s a “it’s barren and unengaging” To put it bluntly we are 4 expansions in! How have they not figured out to make this Congo line, aoe spamming bors fun?! Trash mobs have next to zero mechanics making them bowling pins and the bosses mechs are undertuned, unthrilling and overly generous with their timed executions and notably fewer than some of ARR which is ridiculous!

Popular counterclaims are: play something else which is a defeatist argument, it’s story which is undermined by SOS and harder trials and even some ARR dungeons, Do savage if you want to be challenged which its sad you need to go to extreme lengths for something thrilling and accessible which savage and EX are not considering you need to have a static and due to core content being very hand holdy, it’s a massive abyss with no bridge between hardcore and core, they’ve done so much for 8 man crap and have actively regressed lower than some if not most ARR dungeons mechanically. Pretty yes, fun, highly subjective

Ain’t gonna kill anyone to add a mechanic more or add some spice to trash mobs

[kejakalope]

I utterly and profoundly disagree with all the hyperbole and exaggerated defenses on this matter

No this is not a “it’s easy” argument it’s a “it’s barren and unengaging” To put it bluntly we are 4 expansions in! How have they not figured out to make this Congo line, aoe spamming bors fun?! Trash mobs have next to zero mechanics making them bowling pins and the bosses mechs are undertuned, unthrilling and overly generous with their timed executions and notably fewer than some of ARR which is ridiculous!

Popular counterclaims are: play something else which is a defeatist argument, it’s story which is undermined by SOS and harder trials and even some ARR dungeons, Do savage if you want to be challenged which its sad you need to go to extreme lengths for something thrilling and accessible which savage and EX are not considering you need to have a static and due to core content being very hand holdy, it’s a massive abyss with no bridge between hardcore and core, they’ve done so much for 8 man crap and have actively regressed lower than some if not most ARR dungeons mechanically. Pretty yes, fun, highly subjective

Ain’t gonna kill anyone to add a mechanic more or add some spice to trash mobs

It's not a defeatist argument when the people making it are having fun and like the current design paradigm.

[Jirah]

It's not a defeatist argument when the people making it are having fun and like the current design paradigm.

It is when they can’t defend their claim and say “play something else” and ignoring the fact that’s entirely subjective. People can claim to have fun with anything who cares. The only way to measure, isn’t by “fun factor” as again subjective, but by mechanics, interludes, potencies ect. Things that can be measured and EW is lacking severely.

I take it if they made a trail have 1 singular mechanic and someone said “it’s fun play something else if your not having fun” that’s not a valid argument, more so if they define it which is a really bizarre issue this expansions as everyone praises these shallow husk of solo instances

[Kisshu]

Having tanked all dungeons in EW, the most dangerous part is the wall to wall pulls. The bosses themselves are not very strong, especially vs. paladin. Had one situation on first boss of The Dead Ends where healer and one DPS died at around 55%, leaving me and one DPS to clear the boss, which was doable even with PLD healing DPS at times.

Honestly would love to see some more challenging dungeons, something along the lines of original Orbonne Monastery.

[MilkieTea]

As a not-tank-main, who tanked an expansion for the first time, the level 83 trial was 100% not hard. And it's not even significantly more difficult than pre-EW trials. I'd argue it's about the same difficulty as, say, Hades NM. The level 89 trial was even easier because it was undertuned to allow for Trust AI to complete it. The only trial I had difficulty with was the level 90 trial, only because I'm a bit spatially unaware at times and didn't notice the giant falling things off to my sides before it was too late and the AOE appeared. Wiped once throughout the entire expansion.

Bear in mind I DF'd and PF'd the 83 and 90 trial respectively, and used the trust system for the 89 trial.

[Jirah]

Having tanked all dungeons in EW, the most dangerous part is the wall to wall pulls. The bosses themselves are not very strong, especially vs. paladin. Had one situation on first boss of The Dead Ends where healer and one DPS died at around 55%, leaving me and one DPS to clear the boss, which was doable even with PLD healing DPS at times.

Honestly would love to see some more challenging dungeons, something along the lines of original Orbonne Monastery.

Running them all as tanks it’s Atrocious that they have gates literally no reason to hinder Wall-to-wall runs

Now, I do hate Wall-to-wall as the mobs just continue to stand there as we spam aoes at it, but it’s all the fun you can have they face that some transition rooms are gated just pads it out for not reason, they aren’t powerful enough to hold their own it’s madness!

[kejakalope]

It is when they can’t defend their claim and say “play something else” and ignoring the fact that’s entirely subjective. People can claim to have fun with anything who cares. The only way to measure, isn’t by “fun factor” as again subjective, but by mechanics, interludes, potencies ect. Things that can be measured and EW is lacking severely.

I take it if they made a trail have 1 singular mechanic and someone said “it’s fun play something else if your not having fun” that’s not a valid argument, more so if they define it which is a really bizarre issue this expansions as everyone praises these shallow husk of solo instances

Yoshi's team has ridden their current design paradigm to the #1 spot in the MMO world so it seems they know something you don't.